deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

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deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Anicsi » Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:01 pm

Alright, here I go with a new problem xD I am currently hosting a MEP and two of the parts that were sent to me have heavy interlacing. So even though the quality is amazing, we don't know how to remove the interlacing because apparently the editors made a mistake cleaning their footage when ripping from their DVDs (as they aren't on a-m-v.org I guess they haven't read the 'how-to' guides xD)

Anyway, so I am a bit clueless now as to what to do now. Both of the parts were sent to me as .wmv files (*cough*), and even though I have no problems with using them in Final Cut (thanks to flip4mac) I don't know which program to use to remove the interlacing (if possible at all?).
The premiere date is the 1st of January but I am going to be away over the holidays so I really need help!
I'd be very grateful!
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Bauzi » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:49 pm

You better load the parts into MPEGStream Clip and convert them to a lossless codec. I suggest Apple Pro Res 4222.

Than insert the clip on the timeline in FC (Pro or Express?). Go to Effects->Video Filters->Video-De-Interlace that should do the job. I don't know if it's working and I'm not sure if it is the best method to deint in your case.
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Athena » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:18 am

Is the footage PAL or NTSC?

If it's telecined, merely deinterlacing it won't be enough.
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Anicsi » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:40 am

Kionon wrote:Is the footage PAL or NTSC?

If it's telecined, merely deinterlacing it won't be enough.



Both of them are from the US so I believe it's NTSC. If this is what you want to know x.x If this is the case, is there any way at all to remove the interlacing? I'd try Bauzi's suggestion but if you say it's not enough...
Tanks for your help, both of you! ^^
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Anicsi » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:47 am

Oh sorry, and I have FC Express...
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Athena » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:54 am

stick the footage in avisynth and use nnedi2 on it?
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Anicsi » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:14 pm

I am not sure if I know what you want me to do ^^" My brother usually rips my dvd footage on his win compy so I have never ripped before. I did read the avisynth sticky though, but I get an avs file, right? So.... how should I do this when having a wmv file to begin with? x.x
I also did scroll over the whole topic but couldn't find a post that applied to my question. However, if someone has asked this before I am terribly sorry and if you can guide me to that post I will make sure to try everything carefully before asking again.
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Athena » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:32 pm

First you need to stick it in MPEGStreamClup and using flip4mac/perian, convert to a lossless or highquality, cross platform format, and place in an avi container. Then you need to run VDubMod inside of wine/crossover, convert to HUFFYUV (this is lossless), load that via avisource, apply filters, use VDubMod again to render the final fixed copy to HUFFYUV, place back into MPEGStreamClip and Save As .MOV. Place in Final Cut. ???? Profit!
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Anicsi » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:38 pm

wow, a long way to go, huh? But okay, I will try that. Thank you Kionon :)

Only that basically my problems start already with the first thing lol Um... Somehow MPEGStreamclip is really mocking me and apparently there's no way for me to get a flawless avi file.
I tried about 6 different conversions:
1. I converted/exported it using different codecs with the .avi extension. NONE of them worked.

the first 3 conversions (umm, I don't really know what's HQ for you and lossless but cross platform, so I tried various ^^") were H.264, x264 and ... i can't remember, sorry ^^": They had either only the audio or neither audio nor video when opening them in QT.

The fourth conversion was Apple Intermediate Codec since I simply wanted to know if it was the same case. Here I had a HQ video but no audio. lol

The last conversion was with dvix codec but the quality is really stupidly and extremely bad, it hurts only looking at it.

2. Okay, so I tried it with using mp4 container and thought about moving it into an avi container next.
JUp, conversion was perfect (H.264 since there aren't many options) BUT when I moved it into an avi container (> save as) : NO video, NO audio. lol

WHAT the hell am I supposed to do? I thought as the audio is going to be replaced in the mep I don't necessarily need it but I doubt that Apple Intermediate Codec is a cross platform codec, right? xD

Any suggestions? Which codec should I export it as? Is that normal?
I am truly sorry about that and appreciate your help!
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Bauzi » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:46 am

Kionon said it:
First you need to stick it in MPEGStreamClup and using flip4mac/perian, convert to a lossless or highquality, cross platform format, and place in an avi container. Then you need to run VDubMod inside of wine/crossover, convert to HUFFYUV (this is lossless), load that via avisource, apply filters, use VDubMod again to render the final fixed copy to HUFFYUV, place back into MPEGStreamClip and Save As .MOV. Place in Final Cut. ???? Profit!

Yes okay this is too cryptic for somebody who obviously has no experience with it. Kionon, I think you don't like that new people on the internet always want everything on a silver plate without effort and doing something for it, but this is just too hard for somebody new.

lossless: HuffYUV (-> codec)

"load that via avisource" = use Avisynth
"apply filters" = Avisynth scripts with filters
"use VDubMod again" = load your Avisynthscript (.avs) into VirtualDub or VirtualDubMod
Wine/Crossover = two methods that let you use Windows programs and games on your Mac. Crossover costs a bit, but is easier to use.

Looking around for sticky guides often helps:
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=95075&start=0

This guide will tell you which filters you'll need for de-interlacing:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... ocId250182
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... ssive.html

What you need to know about avisynth:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... synth.html

This is a very usefull knowledge to work with high quality dvd material on a Mac, but you probably want to test my method too. It's just easier, faster and might work as well. I still recommend you to read threw the guides. It's usefull technical knowledge for working with videos.
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Anicsi » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:54 pm

@Bauzi: Well, I didn't expect it to go as smoothly as it sounds and to be honest I am sure I would have had to ask again because of some problems.

I don't mind Kionon's tone, I was pretty much startled when she cut me down for the first time but I am used to that by now lol
Apart from that she surely has her reasons, it is tiring to repeat the same stuff over and over again. I get that.
But I am sorry, I am a bit retarded with technical stuff, so even if I read the guides, if it's something complicated it doesn't help me much lol
Apart from that I said that I read that sticky guide in the Mac section but it is apparently for ripping dvds so I thought it was different when deinterlacing compressed videos. (different input etc.)
I guess I was wrong.

So, on top of me being a bit slow in understanding things that require to use 5 programs I have only heard the name of, but never used, I wouldn't have asked if it wasn't important and I needed the problem to be solved quickly. That is my own fault of course, I could have guessed someone would come to me with interlacing issues.
Well, here again, I didn't.

Anyway, Bauzi, I'd very much like to read those guides only that I have like 0 time right now. So I'll probably pass on the interlacing this time, no helping it right now even if it sucks.
Yes, you probably meant that with the silver tablet, you are half right in that aspect. Usually I don't hesitate to read all this stuff and I also don't mind experimenting a bit. But as I am under time pressure, I was somehow expecting Goddess Kionon to come up with a miraculous solution lol
My fault again.

Well, to come to your suggestion:
Apparently you haven't read my latest post (no offense), MpegStreamClip WON'T let me convert it to put it into an avi container.
Also, the only codec I know very well by now (apart from the usual ones lol) are Huffies, but what should I do if i cannot convert the video? Also.... is converting the video necessary? I thought lossless only applied to the conversion? So if I can stick it into FC without converting it, what is the conversion for then?
Well, i tried your method without converting it the day you mentioned it, but it didn't help... So unless the huffy codec changes anything important, it's not enough as it seems.
Still thank you very much!

Ps: Okay, apparently converting wmv via avidemux to huffy is possible. Does that help me in any way?
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Athena » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:25 am

I'm on vacation, (actually layover in San Francisco), so I'll get more detailed in a day or so, or after Christmas.

Anicsi, I have never "cut [you] down," this is my normal tone of voice. I am not being sarcastic, condescending, or negatively blunt. I'm have a tendency to be efficient, but there is no emotional tone. If anything, I am eager to help fellow Mac editors, and no Bauzi, I thought that Anicsi would be able to understand what I said since she has posted often enough and I presumed she had read all of the stickies, guides etc. I was actually treating Ancsi as an equal here.

You're both reading context into my words that does not exist.

Anicsi wrote:Ps: Okay, apparently converting wmv via avidemux to huffy is possible. Does that help me in any way?


If avisynth can read that huffy when moved to a .AVI container, then yes, it helps a lot.
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Anicsi » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:15 pm

Sorry Kionon, 'cut (me) down' was probably the wrong expression, i have some difficulties in knowing when such an expression is used, I guess it was too 'strong' in this aspect. Also I didn't really mean it in a negative way, since you were right in everything you said. Actually I was refering to the very first time I talked to you over a year ago when I was asking some really stupid questions ^^

Anyway, it is sometimes hard to guess the mood of someone you don't see or hear talk, since your answer was kept pretty shortly (even though everything was said I guess) I got the wrong impression.

Either way, I am grateful for your help. Since I will be on vacation again starting the day after tomorrow and the premiere date is on friday as well, I won't have the time to do it via avisynth and download all the programs.

However, I tried the method Bauzi mentioned on both of the videos. It worked perfectly for one, the other one isn't affected at all but the interlacing isn't that grave... I am gonna go over all these guides again once I have some more time.
Thanks again.



Oh and by the way on a different matter:
Does it have any disadvantages to use mkv files directly in Final Cut? My external harddrive is stuffed so I can't convert to Huffy and on top of that the DVD's won't come out in Europe or the US apparently. Anyway, I was experimenting a while ago with some textless mkv openings and found out I can use them in FC.
So I used MkvMerge to demux the mkv files and could now import the video file to FC without even having to change the container.

It worked pretty smoothly but now I just wondered if there is any disadvantage in doing so. Like, for example, what exactly is the advantage of Huffies, apart from them being lossless in conversion? is the quality of avi's or other non-lossless (? eh yeah) codecs reduced when applying effects? Also I encountered a really strange problem. I had no problem with any mkv file at all, except the one I need to use really badly. lol
Um, yes, Kara no Kyoukai:

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Original file. Flawless.

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I could cry just as her when seeing this... *shivers* The quality is... beyond words. It's already like that when importing to FC.


I think the difference is visible. As I said, this is the one any only case I have had this happen. As far as I can tell it is even encoded the same way. Could it be the lenght of the video? It is almost 2 hours long.
Well, I will experiment a bit more but I thought maybe one of you has some experience with that.
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby Athena » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:30 am

Never, ever, ever edit with lossy files- precisely for the above reason. You are never quite sure what a given editor is going to do when decoding a lossy file, but the results are always bad. Using a lossless codec, like Huffyuv, avoids this issue. I wish I had it, or that Katey would pop up and post it, but there used to be a flashing picture of text that said NEVER PUT DIVX/XVID CODECS IN ANY EDITOR that would be appropriate here. Just understand that DIVX/XVID pretty much means lossy codecs, even lossy, compressed h264. You just cannot control the quality that way.
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Re: deinterlacing of amvs/MEP parts

Postby mirkosp » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:52 am

Uhm... I think I know what the issue is. Are you, by any chance, trying to edit 720x480 with AR flag? That totally looks like you are telling FCP to do the 16:9 AR flag on your source, but apparently FCP doesn't handle AR flag well. That should not be an issue however, as, if you are actually working with the project in ar flag too, then you'll just be exporting at 720x480, and have the flagging be done on playback, therefor the quality will be ratined in the end. If you however are editing at something like 848x480 or whatsoever and forcing the ar in fcp, then you'll likely keep the issue since FCP is forcibly handling the AR conversion, which will be passed through to the export and the encoder...

PS: earlier on Kio suggested nnedi2 for deinterlacing, and I think it's my fault if he did... well nnedi2 isn't a deinterlacer, just an interpolator... so if you use that, it just discards a field and interpolates the other. If you need to full field deinterlace use tdeint, and eventually use nnedi2 after that if you have combed frames. In this case it was a matter of inverce telecining though, I think.
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