[Quit deleting my posts]

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[Quit deleting my posts]

Postby -Reda- » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:49 pm

You fuckshit mods need to stop deleting all my posts. I thought we talked about this already?

Edit: As for the privledges you mentioned in that email to me...what forum privledges? If you faggots don't let me make a post on your fucking forums, don't act all high and mighty for letting me be here, because if thats what you call what you're doing reach down into your deep assholes and pull your head hard...maybe then it'll finally come out.
Last edited by -Reda- on Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SOAD2: The Neverending MEP (4 slots open...)

Postby CastielTheFallen » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:50 pm

Yeah well u know how the establishment works, if ur not a KOOLKID u cant even partake in a forum joke. Even when it's perfectly relevant to a topic. It's like the guy07 is gay thing that everybody gets away with joke-spamming.

Now, hold on man. I'm not trying to scam anybody here. This will not stand man, this aggression will not stand. Ya know?

Kevs a faggot.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby Corran » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:41 am

-Reda- wrote:You fuckshit mods need to stop deleting all my posts.


None of the posts you made since the reply I sent were deleted. (Because they were within the forum rules) If you are referring to the post you made before that time saying "Kev's a faggot..." then I'm not sure why you would expect us to not remove it.

-Reda- wrote:I thought we talked about this already?


I kind of feel like I should be the one asking that question... In any case, I had assumed so, but you never replied to the email I sent. Based on your recent posting I had figured that you had taken what I said into consideration...
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby Otohiko » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:50 am

-Reda-,

I’ve been passed along your feedback from before by one of the .org admins, and since I’m the one who handled your situation in the MEP forum a couple of weeks ago, I feel like it’s my duty to respond. That said, I am responding not on behalf of the administration right now, but from my own personal opinion, because I feel strongly that what you have done is wrong and your defense of your actions is totally unfounded.

First of all, there has been no concerted effort to single out anyone. On my part in this situation, all I’ve done was go in the MEP forum and observe. This is strictly the only method I have used to moderate the forums since I joined the administration a few weeks ago. I made no effort to go after you – all I had to do was check threads with posts that I hadn’t yet read, and we all know what I’ve found. Very many people’s posts were treated the same and, well, for some reason you were the only one to insist on your right to keep that post. Don’t put yourself out as a martyr for free speech. You’ve repeatedly abused your forum privileges in gross ways and I honestly don't see how you can claim a say in this. I’ve gone very leniently on you, more so than you deserved based on your behaviour. Perhaps this is because I actually believe in your ability to be a good contributing member and wanted to give you another chance.

As to the MEP forum in general, the fact that it has been lightly moderated before is simply the result of mods having limited time and having more important things to look at. This does not exempt it from rules, and they have been enforced in other forums (like General AMV) more thoroughly all along since they had higher priority in times when few moderators were available. Now that two new moderators have come on board, the administration has a bit more resources to deal with forum moderation. So, the MEP forum again gets looked at. Notice, by the way, that the vast majority of this type of spam dating back several months has now been removed from all threads where it was seen as inappropriate and abusive. And if you see some remaining and are unhappy with it, the appropriate response is not to point at it and say "I can do that too!", but to point it out to the moderators.

On the point of mods being anti-community: you know, I agreed to be mod precisely because I care about the community and want it to grow and improve. I genuinely believe in the fact that a community needs more than just an ‘object’ around which it’s built (like AMVs in our case), it needs socialization and spirit. And I have absolutely no problem if threads in any forum go a little OT. As long as it’s not the predominant mode of discourse, a bit of OT is healthy and necessary. I welcome people being a bit funny and creative. I welcome people mentioning stuff going on in their lives when they talk about MEPs. I’m fine if people occasionally want a bit of sympathy or offer it to others, and I won’t ‘raid’ an MEP thread if people spend a page of it telling someone happy birthday or something like that. But I draw a clear line between good, useful, community-building (but necessarily occasional) digressions and posts that have no value other than to draw attention, waste people’s time, display narcissism, disdain or disrespect, or just plain old offend. What value did your infamous repeating "page 69" post add? Do you seriously believe that inane memes add ANYTHING good to the community? Do you seriously believe that this is a battle of free expression versus censorship?

This to me, -Reda-, is a matter of basic respect versus disrespect for the community and the hobby. There is nothing creative or “adult” to what you have been doing with your recent MEP forum posts. You are not an advocate for creativity or free expression in this case. You are an advocate for a free right to behave anti-socially in the community, the very opposite of what makes a community healthy and mature. And I won’t stand down on this issue just because you put on a facade of rationality to conceal your own basic disrespect for other members as well as the administration of this forum. If you would like to be rational, please explain exactly how your behaviour in situations like the one you were suspended for does anything other than damage the community and erode respect for the site as a whole, and then perhaps we can reason.

There will always be issues on the forum. There will always be cases that are missed, and cases where an individual mod might not see a problem but another will. There are always going to be strange cases and grey areas. Obviously we are working to be as consistent and fair in this as we can. What I can say is that when posts have an obviously abusive purpose, they will be removed - once or repeatedly, if necessary. Just because I or another mod has missed something, somewhere else, at some other point in time, doesn't mean that we make a policy of overlooking obvious problems that require moderation. Others may have a different view of this, but as a forum moderator I see my job as regards individual posts as this: if I see a post that is obviously in violation of rules, I will deal with it. If there is another post somewhere else on the forum made at some point in time by some other member that was similar that I had not come across - well, what can I do about that? It's absurd to expect a mod to consider the whole of the forum and to dwell on context or look for examples in making his/her judgment - not to say that we do not take context into account, and I think mods have been quite sensitive to particular situations and have always been willing to talk things over when there are community issues and misunderstandings. I think administrative work in the AMV community pretty much requires mods to be well-attuned to dealing with grey areas and being diplomatic when it is called for. But when it comes to basic rules, etiquette and purpose of the forums, abusive posts should and will be deleted as quickly as possible upon being found by a mod. There is no grey area in these. And I do not feel that we need to defend our decisions in cases where posts are clearly against forum rules, even if we occasionally miss similar posts elsewhere, or if another mod in another time and another thread dealt with a similar situation differently.

It would be awfully convenient for those who insist on abusing the forum if every single mod decision had to consider the forum's history and be backed up by examples of moderation elsewhere - because then a mod would get bogged down in decisionmaking and while he/she decides whether to remove a post or not, 10 more of this nature can be made and it becomes an uphill battle where consistency is all the more unfeasible. Meanwhile, a decision that is essentially correct and in line with site policy can be made momentarily based on rules alone. This was exactly how I decided to delete several of your posts in the MEP forum. And subsequently, you were banned - not for making the post, but for insisting on it and wasting both my and others' time in repeating your pointless anti-social "feat", while also making offensive and completely inappropriate remarks. The only sense in which I considered your personal history on the forums was that I knew that you were not likely to stop then and there - you were known for previously making repeatedly-abusive posts. The ban was thus directed not at punishing you but at stopping you from wasting any more of anyone's time (including your own) that day, and giving you a cool-off period to consider the warning which you were sent prior to the ban. If this to you is an example of bad moderation, then I'm sorry but you really seem to have a strange sense of what is 'good' for the forum and its' membership.

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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby -Reda- » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:57 pm

Corran wrote:If you are referring to the post you made before that time saying "Kev's a faggot..." then I'm not sure why you would expect us to not remove it.


It's an inside joke with the MEP, kev and I are good friends. Plenty of other Meps have equally useless posts but those get to stay.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby -Reda- » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:07 pm

What value did your infamous repeating "page 69" post add? Do you seriously believe that inane memes add ANYTHING good to the community? Do you seriously believe that this is a battle of free expression versus censorship?


I just don't see anything wrong with it; its fun and goofy. Now memes are against the rules? Or any post that doesn't contribute anything doesn't belong here either? It lightened the mood. And I know you're going to claim, "I thought that ha ha was at the thread and thats why we removed it" but I refuse to believe not one of your staff members have seen Phil Ken Sebben laugh at something dirty in Harvey Birdman.

And if you see some remaining and are unhappy with it, the appropriate response is not to point at it and say "I can do that too!", but to point it out to the moderators.


I'll do my best in this regard, but I'm not going to tell you how to do your job. In the email Corran sent back to me regarding inthestos sig, he mentioned something along the lines of "If someone gets offended, we'll remove it." Isn't it your job to make sure someone DOESN'T get offended? Why would you wait until someone takes something the wrong way, which they inevitably will?

More Otohiko email


I have to say out of all the mods here who I'm pissed off at, you're not one of them. You seem like a pretty logical decent minded person, and your email is pretty on par although I have to say I'd accept the fact that people have a different sense of humor then you do. "Kev is a faggot" was an inside joke for the Mep, and just that. I didn't spam it all over the place, I didn't write it rudely, it's just some idle conversation on the mep. I'm not defending it, I'm not asking for a rebuttal on your part, I'm explaining the post to you so maybe YOU'LL get it.

And also while we're on the issue of moderator discussion, I'd like an explanation for why NME was banned from the IRC for doing nothing wrong. I've never heard anything back on this issue yet.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby godix » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:56 pm

You know, I'm probably the user with the most posts ever removed by the mods. If not, I gotta at least be in the running for it. So, speaking as someone who has been in your position many many times, I gotta say: Shut the fuck up -Reda-. If you cross a line and the mods slap you down for it then don't whine. Temper tantrums amuse no one.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby guy07 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:13 am

I'm glad we all learned something today. Reda learned to do as he/she is told (you have to respect/obey authority figures regardless of their form), the mods learned not to discriminate, and I figured out that people talk about the gay jokes about me even in threads I have nothing to do with.
And honestly, who cares if the post was deleted? It's not like the secret to world peace was in that post. THB, I think you're just acting sort of spoiled, but I don't really know you so my view could be wrong. Just leave shit as it is and go on, raising a fuss won't do you any good.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby CastielTheFallen » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:54 am

Yeah because bringing up the issue of moderator discrimination makes you spoiled.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby Kariudo » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:33 pm

Arashinome wrote:Yeah because bringing up the issue of moderator discrimination makes you spoiled.

Uhh...no
Thinking that the mods are out to get you and using that as an excuse to go on a (or several) rampage(s) makes you spoiled
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby godix » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:46 pm

Arashinome wrote:Yeah because bringing up the issue of moderator discrimination makes you spoiled.

The mods don't discriminate much. I've watched them deal with people they don't like and, if anything, they take even more pains to be fair and give the person a chance when they don't like them than when they do. I don't always agree with the mods, but I don't think they play favorites or discriminate either. Of course, that's generally speaking. I didn't catch whatever drama reda started, however lines like 'you fuckshit mods' or 'reach down into your deep assholes and pull your head hard' aren't likely to make me think the mods made a wrong call here.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby BurningLeaves » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:38 am

Reda you of all people claiming the mods are targeting you is bullshit. I remember logging on to the org one day and seeing your name on every forum spamming 'Kevs a fag' everywhere. Any other time you see that the spammer is gone, permanently. But with you I'm guessing they went lenient specifically because it was you, because here you are, still able to complain about mod mistreatment when in fact the complete opposite seems to be true.

If you're that annoyed with moderating going on in the mep forum, you could have easily just made your own forum for the mep somewhere where you can go off topic and have as many flame wars as you'd like, but I'm guessing someone like you would never do something like that because it's not cool being the rebel dick unless everyone else can see you being a rebel dick.

You seem to have this chip on your shoulder and resent anything that remotely resembles authority. The mods here do a hard job, and they do it for free just so people like you and I who share a similar hobby can enjoy it together. And I, like most members are certainly grateful they do and am more than happy to play by their rules because it isn't our god given right to be able to post on this forum like you seem to think it is.

/Commoners opinion.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby -Reda- » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:16 am

BurningLeaves wrote:Reda you of all people claiming the mods are targeting you is bullshit. I remember logging on to the org one day and seeing your name on every forum spamming 'Kevs a fag' everywhere. Any other time you see that the spammer is gone, permanently. But with you I'm guessing they went lenient specifically because it was you, because here you are, still able to complain about mod mistreatment when in fact the complete opposite seems to be true.


Honestly I am thankful to still be on the forums after all my shenanigans, and honestly I have been trying to behave myself. What I'm a little disheveled about is that their reasoning (and other people supporting them) is referencing past things I did rather then current issues. I'm not saying I'm a perfectly behaved person on these boards and they're punishing me for no reason. I completely understand removing spam posts that I throw all over the place; thats not what I have issue with.

I just don't like that even when I make efforts to change, sentiments towards me don't and instead I'm met with hostility.

And P.S. I served a 3 month ban for the Kev's a fag spamming, which I understood and abided by without trying to get around whatsoever.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby -Reda- » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:25 am

godix wrote:
Arashinome wrote:Yeah because bringing up the issue of moderator discrimination makes you spoiled.

The mods don't discriminate much. I've watched them deal with people they don't like and, if anything, they take even more pains to be fair and give the person a chance when they don't like them than when they do. I don't always agree with the mods, but I don't think they play favorites or discriminate either. Of course, that's generally speaking. I didn't catch whatever drama reda started, however lines like 'you fuckshit mods' or 'reach down into your deep assholes and pull your head hard' aren't likely to make me think the mods made a wrong call here.


All I posted was Kev's a fag in the SOAD2 Mep. Once. As a joke. Now my confusion and anger doesn't come from nowhere on that, I'm just frustrated when I can't get away with what other people can get away with. Even if you take that completely literally, and say "Well you're offending his sexual orientation" you had no problem letting someone else do the same to me in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=95836
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Now don't panic guys, I took care of it with an appropriate reaction image, but still I fail to see how that post contributes more to that particular thread then "Kev is a faggot". At least my joke was one relevant to the MEP's history, whereas she is just blatantly attacking me. But her post stays and mine is removed, and that is why I have issues.

I'm not asking for special treatment and I'm willing to take responsibility for my own actions, however the lack of consistency in your moderating is what frustrates me the most, and leads me to believe that I am being singled out. I'm not saying I am, and at this point I honestly don't think that and my initial frustration is gone, but I'd love comments from you guys as I am enjoying this discussion.

And sorry for the double post.
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Re: [Quit deleting my posts]

Postby Corran » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:40 am

Over the last three months there were an average of 8519 posts a month. I personally devote most of my time to programming and misc admin duties and only moderate in the few threads in the forum that I do read as part of my normal browsing. As a result, I probably only read 400 or so posts a month. Even with the combined efforts of the other moderators that are focused primarily on the forum, I would estimate that we are only able to read under 50% of the total posts. (Just a guess, I have no real way of knowing our actual coverage)

This makes perceived consistency very difficult to achieve and it is one of the reasons we have the Mod Drop Box forum. We have stickies in the hidden moderator forum and a wiki with topics which outline how moderators are expected to moderate. I would ask that instead of assuming we are intentionally being inconsistent, that the it be assumed that we have not seen the issue in question and alert us via the drop box.

This isn't to say we aren't on occasion being inconsistent. I think we can always improve in this regard.

In regards to the in-joke, while I was not the person to remove the post, I would have removed it as well. As you might of guessed from my earlier reply in this thread, I was not aware of the fact that you and Kev are friends, that Kev was cool with the posts, or that the post was a part of some larger in-joke. I would have perceived it as a flame and I personally can not fault any other moderator if they thought the same.

I have not read the thread that the post was made in, but in most cases if that post had not been perceived as a flame it would have been perceived as spam or completely off-topic/non-contributory and would likewise have been removed... If a moderator stumbles into the thread and sees a post like that, I don't expect them to try and read the entire thread for context, especially if the thread is very long.
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