Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!!

[Cyrix]

I find it incredibly disrespectful of editors to enter contest with a video that they don't intend to release until after a bigger contest. It's advertising a product you refuse to deliver.

If a contest is important enough to enter a video into, that audience should be important enough to release that video for. If a certain big contest is important enough to premiere a video at, save that video so that it truly premieres there, and don't enter earlier contests.

As a contest coordinator you should not be encouraging editors who rudely disregard their audiences. Create an exclusivity rule, or don't. Your compromise idea is a bad one.

This doesn't make any sense at all. AMVs are not products. The audience has not paid money for them. There is no guarantee of delivery expressed or implied. The audience is not particularly hurt by waiting for an AMV. If they didn't see it at a con, they probably don't even know it exists, and since AMVs are not installments in a story it doesn't matter how long they have to wait to see it. There's no difference between finishing a video in May and releasing it in July, or finishing it in July and releasing it immediately.

If someone sees an AMV at an earlier con that hasn't been put online yet... that's no different than the way the entire film industry works. You have to wait months, or years, to see a movie after it's advertised in trailers. Do you think film trailers are disrespectful to the audience? You also have to wait months to buy it on home video after you pay to see it in the theater, so there's a delay again there. It's not the end of the world.

[Seijin_Dinger]

with you wanting to disallow MLP, would that be 100% not allowed, or allowed up to whatever possible ratio of non-anime footage may be allowable in the rules?

Non-anime may not be the primary footage. However, non-anime such as MLP may be used in conjunction.

The rules officially state an approximate ratio of 70/30. In practice it has been ascertained leniently, though no videos to my recollection have pushed that boundary.

I figurred it was a ratio, the question was for the person wanting MLP banned, if they meant banned entirely and any bit means an instant DQ even if it fell into that 30% ratio

[Warlike Swans]

I find it incredibly disrespectful of editors to enter contest with a video that they don't intend to release until after a bigger contest. It's advertising a product you refuse to deliver.

If a contest is important enough to enter a video into, that audience should be important enough to release that video for. If a certain big contest is important enough to premiere a video at, save that video so that it truly premieres there, and don't enter earlier contests.

As a contest coordinator you should not be encouraging editors who rudely disregard their audiences. Create an exclusivity rule, or don't. Your compromise idea is a bad one.

This doesn't make any sense at all. AMVs are not products. The audience has not paid money for them. There is no guarantee of delivery expressed or implied. The audience is not particularly hurt by waiting for an AMV. If they didn't see it at a con, they probably don't even know it exists, and since AMVs are not installments in a story it doesn't matter how long they have to wait to see it. There's no difference between finishing a video in May and releasing it in July, or finishing it in July and releasing it immediately.

If someone sees an AMV at an earlier con that hasn't been put online yet... that's no different than the way the entire film industry works. You have to wait months, or years, to see a movie after it's advertised in trailers. Do you think film trailers are disrespectful to the audience? You also have to wait months to buy it on home video after you pay to see it in the theater, so there's a delay again there. It's not the end of the world.

Look up the definition of a word before you argue about it.

prod·uct   [prod-uhkt, -uhkt]
noun
1.
a thing produced by labor: products of farm and factory; the product of his thought.

I never said it was "the end of the world" said it's disrespectful and rude. The film industry operates on its own timescale, and fulfills the audience expectation of it. One expects the video release of a movie to follow the theatrical release by a few months, one would have every right to complain if they then had to wait a few years.

People submit AMVs to a contest because they want them to be seen, and the audience expects to be able to watch them online afterwards, if not immediately afterwards, then within a few days. That's the expectation within our "industry." If you submit to a couple cons but then don't release the video until after a big con the message that you send is that you want prizes from the small cons but you don't give a shit about their audiences.

[Rider4Z]

omg so much reading i AM reading everything tho! it's nice to hear opinions on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. i don't envy you, troy. no matter what you do someone's not gonna be happy.

i do wanna say tho that everything being spoken is JUST an opinion. some people think seeing amvs in advance can hurt your chances, others believe it can benefit them. and the truth is both are right. an audience doesn't share one brain. some will see a video they've already viewed and will judge it differently compared to the ones they haven't seen, whether it's to that video's benefit or not. ultimately, there's no real right answer here.

Spoiler :

The one year I went to Anime LA, Fanime and AX in the same year...I saw the same AMV get in at all three times. By the second time, I was bored out of my mind of it.

you're talking about FM's BACK aren'tcha? hey to be fair it didn't make finals at ALA

[Shin-AMV]

People are going to read optional requests in rules as mandatory requirements regardless of how many modifiers you tag onto it to suggest its only optional. I would suggest to just drop the language of that entirely to avoid unneccesary questions and hassles about it, and if people want to premiere it at AX they can figure that out for themselves anyways.

[Hagaren Viper]

with you wanting to disallow MLP, would that be 100% not allowed, or allowed up to whatever possible ratio of non-anime footage may be allowable in the rules?

I'm perfectly fine with the current 70/30 rule, or if someone wants to be the next Castor and have Ponies fight Naruto or something so I dont mind if that kinda thing pops up in vids, I just don't think pure non-anime vids have a place in an anime music video contest? I mean, for the preshow or if they magically got their own category/contest, sure. I wouldn't mind Avatar/Korra in the actual contest since its anime without being anime, but yeah.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I'm of the complete opposite opinion. I think it's harmful and disrespectful to the event and the at-con audience (and damaging to the reaction to your video) to post the video online in advance of an event you plan to show your video at (regardless of the event, be it ours or others).

I'd like to point out that Shin's 'Safety Dance' vid has been online for quite a bit and Im pretty sure it has made its way through different cons...and it still won the Fun category. Being on Youtube etc. didn't really hurt him...heck personally, I was pretty excited to see it on the big screen.

I do see the case *for* premiering AMVs at AX, but I think that should be the creator's choice to do so or not.

[Pwolf]

I'm only going to post once cause we all know what happened last year when I had a problem with the rules and such... don't need a repeat. If anyone wishes to reply to me on what I have to say, please PM me.

First off, I think adding a "Freshness" rule is awesome. Almost every other contest has one and its about time IMO. That said, I think the notion that it's disrespectful and rude to either not release a video before it premieres or not release it after it premieres is just ridiculous. You only think it's disrespectful and rude because they don't do it they way you do. For me, I don't premiere videos at cons. I have a few times in the past but 99% of the time, I release it when I'm finished. I send to cons because I want people to see my work when they otherwise might not be able to. The vast majority of a contests audiences don't come to the org. For editors like myself who do not use any other means to show their work, it's a great way to get a couple thousand people to see something I made when I may only get a few hundred views in a year here. The only people who really complain about seeing the same video over and over at different cons are the editors. We are the minority. While these are indeed contests, they are also for entertainment purposes. Contests need to be fair for all who participate but ultimately it's for the people who attend the convention to enjoy. You need to find the balance between getting quality entries/pissing editors off and making sure you have a good show.

I like Rule B. A lot. It's the next best thing to an exclusivity rule without actually being one. I don't like exclusivity rules because they cause harm to other events. However, if there's a "no downloads" rule, the onus is entirely on the creator. They can still send to other events, they just can't post it online until after AX. In fact, all the other events the AMV is sent to prior to AX even get an indirect exclusivity benefit. So yes, I like the rule a lot. It's way more friendly to the convention community than an exclusivity rule.

You were already hard pressed for entries this year, why make it more difficult for editors to enter in the future? Exclusivity is fine but you need to look at actually getting entries in first before you can start limiting them. If you had this rule in place this year, do you honestly believe you would've received as much entries as you did? This doesn't make any sense for a general admission contest but works perfectly fine for contests like AWA Masters.

Here's the current form of the Freshness Rule section:

[NOT FINAL NOT FINAL NOT FINAL NOT FINAL!!!]
#) Freshness Rule
No “stale” entries. A “stale” entry is considered any of the following:
a) Any AMV that has already played at any combination of three out of the five west coast events listed below:
SakuraCon, Fanime, Anime Los Angeles, Anime Vegas, PMX.
b) [REMOVED. Rule C will become Rule B.]
c) Any entry that was shown at any live event prior to July 1st, 2012. (FINALIZED)
NOTE: If your AMV is presently available for public viewing or download, we request that you temporarily remove it (where possible) until after the event.

Awesome, you removed Rule B but why the sub note? You're going to complicate things when it really doesn't need to be. Just tell us what the rules are and leave out any "optional" text. There's already a wall of text we have to read through, lets keep it shorter if you can please.

Finally I'd like to add that I think you're trying to do too much too fast (and you've only posted one portion of the rules!). AX has generated a bad reputation over the past several years. You've just taken over. The most sensible route would be to try and build it back up and introduce changes gradually. Big changes, like Rule A and the now removed Rule B, will only cause problems, like they have already. Fix the problems that plagued the contest in the past. I think a 1 year rules fixes at least one of those problems, no need to add on top of it for the sake of "saving other contests". You also have to consider how much work rules like this are going to add. You are going to HAVE to research EVERY video that is entered into AX to make sure they haven't been to more than 4 other contest. It doesn't matter what other contests are doing. Other AMV contests that have rules like this have a margin of error. If Otakon accidentally let a video in that won Best in Show somewhere else, they can write it off as an "oops" and do better next year (Otakon also has a unique finalists selection processes that helps facilitate these errors which makes it more forgivable if EVERYONE involved didn't know). AX has no margin for error. If ANY video gets into the contest next year that doesn't follow that requirement, you're going to get crap for it. And it's not going to make things look better for you or the AX contest.

Look at what the problems are and attempt to fix them by introducing small changes over time.

That's my two cents.

[Sephiroth]

If AX had required exclusivity most of the better vids i saw this year wouldn't have made it into the contest and the contest quality overall would have suffered.

Even AWA with its several hundred entries only has its masters every two years, and they still get few entries into it. If you want exclusive video then make a category for them. That the only way i can see it remotely working and even then you wont get that many entries. Over all its a bad idea.

[Seijin_Dinger]

I think the part of the freshness rule where it lists off other northwest cons is a bit region specific and could also hurt those other contests.
Also remember, with your rules rewrite other cons rules should only be a reference and possible ideas, what works for them may not work for your con

[Cyrix]

I find it incredibly disrespectful of editors to enter contest with a video that they don't intend to release until after a bigger contest. It's advertising a product you refuse to deliver.

Look up the definition of a word before you argue about it.

prod·uct   [prod-uhkt, -uhkt]
noun
1.
a thing produced by labor: products of farm and factory; the product of his thought.

That is not a rebuttal, unless you're trying to be Clintonesque. Everything I said still applies.

To be more specific: When you talk about advertising a product, you are using "product" in the sense of some type of good. Typically, but not always, you advertise a product that is for sale. Obviously a product can also be free, although usually a free product is a form of marketing. Calling a piece of art that is not sold, cannot legally be sold, a "product" is playing loose with the definition of product, but whatever. Furthermore, even if you somehow consider an AMV an advertisement, think about these things. An advertisement exists for the purpose of letting a consumer base know a product exists and they should expect to be able to obtain it in some way, usually by purchase. An AMV is a piece of art. The Statue of Liberty is not an advertisement for statues of liberty. I do not expect to be able to purchase that one or any exact copy of it, nor to be able to obtain one for free. There is obviously no guarantee of delivery to me expressed or implied in its existence.

It is a commonly accepted (and rightly so!) idea that creators should and will post their AMVs online, but it is their perogative to do so and they are under no obligation whatsoever. I liked an AMV at the AX show a few years ago. It wasn't very good, and maybe it shouldn't have been in the show, but I liked it anyway. The creator has never posted it online. I asked him to post it, several times, because I enjoyed it in spite of its flaws, but he never did, maybe from being embarassed about it or something. I have no objection whatsoever that he does not post it. It's his decision to do so or not do so.

An AMV is not a commercial product, nor an advertisement for anything except possibly the music and anime that went into creating it. If you are using a looser definition of product, such as "product of thought", it doesn't make sense to apply commercial terms such as "advertise" and "refuse to deliver" to it. It is not a good or commodity in the sense you imply when you call playing it "advertising for a product you refuse to deliver". Thus the entire strain of logic is fundementally flawed.

If you are in a state where, instead of appreciating each and every creator who releases his or her videos online, you are only getting angry at any creator who doesn't, you might want to take a step back and a deep breath and think about your attitude about the whole AMV game.