outlawed wrote:I remember when we translated the MAD info page. Got some amusing commentary on different MAD creator webpages' bbs comments. Pretty much they were like omg who put this up we need to get it down. Unlike us over here where the JP companies have limited power to do anything they also have to worry more about getting shut down.
I also remember reading it was published. I didn't agree with all of your conclusions then, but I lacked context to really articulate my views. I have that context now, and I find that while my positions have changed on some of your analysis, it hasn't changed entirely.
I am well aware of the difference in how IP holders react inside of Japan and views of Japanese fandom towards anonymity. When I say tied to anonymity, I wasn't saying there wasn't justification for it. I perhaps was implying (as I've explicitly stated elsewhere), that I'm not going to follow their lead, and I would encourage Japanese creators to take a less anonymous role if we ever have any hopes of getting the LDP's safe space legislation passed. Although this is unlikely with the DPJ being so friendly with the IP holders. Doujin has a special place because it refused to back down. Douga creators, regardless of what we are called in Japan, and whether or not I qualify as a MAD creator or not (and that's a whole 'nother can of worm entirely which goes straight to the heart of nihonjinron and personal identity more), need to step up and be counted if there is ever hope to be recognised for our skillsets the way doujin artists are.
You can bet something like a large scale AMV contest would not fly over there unless it was backed by a particular corporate entity and had the proper restrictions in place. At that point it wouldn't really be the same thing. Let's also remember that it's standard procedure to keep your otaku status in the closet to begin with.
I'm not even talking about a large scale AMV contest. Most of our fandom meetings (I'm an active part of Yamato fandom, as an example. And I'm recognised as part of the extended Takada fandom since individuals who are not ethnic Japanese are so rare) are very, very small. Less than twenty people. Maybe as many as 50. Comiket is an entirely different type of event and is just not normal. It's an exception. Sustaining a Western style convention would be very difficult. An AMV contest would be impossible. I can't manage to get 10 Japanese creators in a single room. When I talking about events, I mean events like that.
As for otakudom being closeted... That's no longer accurate, at least not in the five years I've lived here. My students certainly are not shy about showing their fandom, and because of Yamato events and Takada events, I've had the chance to interact with how fandom exists in Japan. Likewise, I've met a number of Sailor Moon fans who are more than willing to discuss with me the finer points of Crystal Tokyo sociopolitical implications... at functions which are anything but anime related. It was surprising at first, but it's pretty cool now.
If you take fan out of the picture then you've moved on from AMV or MAD designation. What you have then is professional output. It's not the same thing.
Not sure if I agree. What if the professional output is created by a fan, as in the example a stipulated in the previous post? I just don't draw the distinction you do.
Plenty of doujin amateurs go pro but you don't see people making MADs in Japan as a doujin enterprise to go pro because they don't own the footage and music and would be sued into oblivion.
This may be true, but it certainly isn't legitimate. There is absolutely no difference from a transformative, derivative work perspective. It is more accurate to say that doujin artists are a legitimised pool of talent for assistantships and eventual headline creators. There are a number of successul headline artists who started off as doujin artists, several of my students are essentially doujin artists who hope to become headline artists, a number of assistants are hired from events such as Comiket, and a number of headline artists continue to put out doujin work under their own name or with a penname.
The problem with the current legislative environment and the DPJ's stance is that it doesn't recognise (as the LDP's legislation would have) that MADs (and AMVs, if there is a difference in Japan) are valid forms of transformative, derivative works which may be legitimised as a pool of talent for positions which required editing skills. We need to see that happen, and the fact the LDP showed knowledge of this value was a major step forward... and then they lost the election.
To be honest if I was an animator whether pro or an amateur in the doujin scene I would see AX's cash money AMV contest as a slap in the face. Cons over here exist to serve their clientele so it's a moot point and that's getting off topic.
Cash prizes are unethical. You'll get no argument from me.
Also what we call typical story AMVs exist as MADs. I had seen several back in 2000. They just weren't as common as all the stuff the VN fans made.
I remember, yes.