newbe question [DBZ and after question]

blight040 · Post by **blight040** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:45 am

Ok I’m really new so if this has been asked before I ask forgiveness. But I love animation but it hard to get were I am. So till I found this site I've had none to ask this. What happened to? Gohon all the early movies and up to DBZ's end, It was leading up to him being the ultimate fighter. Then after DBZ it completely changed. He became a Kie (I know I spelled that wrong), and he's now (in context of the anima) a wimp. I have been wanting to ask this for a long time.
My thanks for indulging this newbie.

badmartialarts · Post by **badmartialarts** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:39 pm

Akira Toriyama had nothing to do with any of the stuff after DBZ. That's why.

borpii · Post by **borpii** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:29 pm

^ Pretty much summed it up. Toriyama wanted it to end at DBZ. (I would've liked that too.) If you view the Dragonball series as kaput after that, you're left with an open end or two, but that's normal. You get a pretty nice ending and Gohan's still hella strong!
I don't know what you should think of GT as if you take this mindset, as I have. Total bullshasta, maybe?

EmilLang1000 · Post by **EmilLang1000** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:11 pm

Specifically, he wanted Gohan to be the strongest. The series was losing popularity around the Freeza saga (I'm using the American spelling begrudgendly for your convenience.. I'm sure you wouldn't recognize Furiiza as the spelling), so he thought he'd kill off Goku after he'd saved teh universe. However, because of that, there was a bit of an outcry and Shonnen Jump (the magazine that featured the comic) wanted him to continue the series. So, he kept on writing it, and wanted it to stop at the Cell Saga, because everything he'd hinted to had finally happened: Gohan was God, Vegeta would never fight again (Vegeta's own words), Trunks saved the future, Goku was dead, but died a hero, could have a good time in the afterlife with King Kai and his grandfather, and even Krillin looked like he'd finally get some from 18.
BUT - and we can't forget this - just because they're Japanese doesn't mean they aren't businessmen don't "Go Hollywood" every other second (y'know... ripping the guts, literal, and artistic value out of something in order to create a marketable product - the typical supercapitalist, studio executive thing to do). Even though Toriyama wanted to stop the series, the editors and executives at Shonnen Jump wanted to milk it for all it was worth. So, Toriyama came up with the Buu Saga basically as a way to get himself fired - he made it so incredilby stupid he thought fans would immediately hate it and it would die a quick death; however, never doubt the power of idiots - they are many, and their influence, widely spread. The Japanese, in their eternal wierdness, ate the thing up and loved it. So their's poor Akira, trying to do everything he can to kiil it, until eventually he's allowed to end the series.
But the tragedy that is Dragonball's life isn't over: once again, the executives wanted to milk DBZ's uber-popularity for as long as they could. They asked Toriyama, whom by this point had developed a mild hatred for the comic, and he allowed them to make another series. DBGT thus came into being, and quickly became one of the worst travesties to befall television since Joany Loves Chachi...
So, in conclusion: DBZ, up to the end of the Cell Saga - Toriyama's idea; DBZ, the Buu Saga - Shonnen Jump's idea/Toriyama trying to kill it; DBGT - Japanese Executive's idea.

beedee · Post by **beedee** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:01 pm

Wow that makes things make a lot more sense now i.e. the worse quality of the later sagas of DBZ. I honestly wish I'd never seen GT. It completly ruined any respect I'd had for the Dragonball series overall.

blight040 · Post by **blight040** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:10 am

thanks, you have no clue how long this has bugged me.