GMV is a totally different genre ?

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Dustin Grim
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GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by Dustin Grim » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:47 pm

Hey there, fellas !
I have a question, as i am new in this forum and i know nearly nothing.
Are GMVs a totally different kind of work/genre from AMVs ?
I'm interested in doing both, but i want to be well aware of what i'm doing and if something posted in the amv section which is a gmv is considered off topic or not.
Thank you for every answer, and see ya !

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by SilverLugia345 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:47 pm

I'm not sure how others view the difference but the main difference between GMV and AMV that I'm really aware of is that one basically is video games and the other is anime. Now there are video games out there that use anime-like styles for cutscenes and other aspects of game. I believe if the video game edit uses those anime-style cutscenes is still considered under an amv (So if you are familiar with games like Tales of series, Legend of Zelda or Fire Emblem I believe are good examples of using anime style for cutscenes). Then other games like Final Fantasy, Halo, their cutscenes are more 3D base and really don't hold that anime style are considered GMV edits.

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by Dustin Grim » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:35 am

Thank you :)

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by Kireblue » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:54 pm

If your video uses anime and video games, its allowed to be cataloged and posted in the AMV Announcement forum, but if your video uses nothing but non anime inspired video games, then its not allowed to be cataloged, but it can still be posted in the "Other Videos" forum. This site primarily focuses on AMVs, but we made the "Other Videos" forum because we still like seeing video edits from other forms of animation as well :D

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by TripleR309 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:38 pm

This is actually a super useful thread, thanks a million =)

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by World Domination Studios » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:31 pm

Fan-made music videos are fan-made music videos. It doesn't matter whether you're using anime, live-action footage, Western animation, video games, or some combination of all of them ( a lot of Star Wars videos mix footage from the movies with footage from Clone Wars). It's all one genre.

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by seasons » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:59 am

Game Music Videos are not the same thing as Anime Music Videos, if that is what you’re asking.

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by Kionon » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:54 am

World Domination Studios wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:31 pm
Fan-made music videos are fan-made music videos. It doesn't matter whether you're using anime, live-action footage, Western animation, video games, or some combination of all of them ( a lot of Star Wars videos mix footage from the movies with footage from Clone Wars). It's all one genre.
I'm going to disagree. Working with live action footage versus working with anime is very different. There are some editors who manage to successfully do both. I've dabbled in live action, but I haven't ever been satisfied with the results. Calling LAMVs (or Vids, and the art is Vidding, with its practitioners being Vidders) the same genre as AMVs goes against my experience that the skill set is different. I mean, sure, they're both video editing. But so are commercial music videos (which is itself a different skill set than Vids or AMVs) and movies. And no one thinks that they're the same genre because they're both editing. The skill sets are incredibly different.

As for video game as the source, I think it largely depends on the style. If the style is anime, like visual novels, or the Revolutionary Girl Utena Sega Saturn game (which I have used myself), then it's basically an AMV because the style is hewing to anime norms.
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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by ryanolsen » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:41 pm

SilverLugia345 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:47 pm
I'm not sure how others view the difference but the main difference between GMV and AMV that I'm really aware of is that one basically is video games and the other is anime. Now there are video games out there that use anime-like styles for cutscenes and other aspects of game. I believe if the video game edit uses those anime-style cutscenes is still considered under an amv (So if you are familiar with games like Tales of series, Legend of Zelda or Fire Emblem I believe are good examples of using anime style for cutscenes). Then other games like Final Fantasy, Halo, their cutscenes are more 3D base and really don't hold that anime style are considered GMV edits.
I also think the same way.

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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by the Black Monarch » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:50 pm

Kionon wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:54 am
Working with live action footage versus working with anime is very different. There are some editors who manage to successfully do both. I've dabbled in live action, but I haven't ever been satisfied with the results. Calling LAMVs (or Vids, and the art is Vidding, with its practitioners being Vidders) the same genre as AMVs goes against my experience that the skill set is different. I mean, sure, they're both video editing. But so are commercial music videos (which is itself a different skill set than Vids or AMVs)
Having made both anime and live-action music videos, and having seen dozens that combine footage from multiple sources, including some that incorporate footage from the original official videos, I'm going to say that's a load of bollocks. In fact, there are many official music videos that are made for songs from animated movies and incorporate footage from those movies, such as "Over My Head" from Titan AE (www.youtube.com/watch?v=duE_pFsWWaA) and "Strangers Like Me" from Tarzan (www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbDsfvpRbZs). Tron Legacy has been described by MANY people as a 2-hour-long Daft Punk music video.

Sure, they have their own little quirks. For example, lip sync is a LOT easier to do in animation than in live-action, for obvious reasons, and official music videos grant you the luxury of shooting your own footage, whereas fan-made music videos restrict you to whatever's in the TV show, movie, or game that you're working with... unless you're Brentalfloss and you just go ahead and roll your own live-action footage anyway and mix it with game footage. But these quirks certainly don't make AMVs, LAMVs, and GMVs separate genres.

If you were to split them, would you put anime and western animation in separate categories? Would computer-generated shows like Reboot get their own category separate from cel animation? Would video game footage be split into two categories depending on whether you used gameplay footage or cutscenes? What about games that include live-action cutscenes like the Command & Conquer franchise? If I were to make a music video using exclusively the live-action mission briefings from the Command & Conquer games, would that be a live-action music video or a video game music video? Do you treat pre-rendered cutscenes differently from ones that are rendered in-game on-the-fly? If cutscenes are pre-rendered CGI, does that put them in the same genre as Reboot? What about machinima footage that LOOKS like it's from a game, but is actually rendered using third-party software, like a lot of Minecraft videos are? What the hell would Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within count as? Most of all, if you were to split them into separate genres, where would you put the videos that combine footage from multiple sources, like this one that combines live-action, Western traditional cel animation, western CGI, anime, and multiple types of original fan-made content?
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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by Kionon » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:30 am

the Black Monarch wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:50 pm
Having made both anime and live-action music videos, and having seen dozens that combine footage from multiple sources, including some that incorporate footage from the original official videos, I'm going to say that's a load of bollocks.
Maybe this isn't quite the nicest way to approach a serious discussing on fan video editing theory. I've seen and made a lot of fan crap too over the last twenty years and learned how to edit in a radio/TV broadcasting vocational program. As with all art, our opinions will obviously be... well.. our opinions.
But these quirks certainly don't make AMVs, LAMVs, and GMVs separate genres.
Separate genres of what? Of editing? I would say they are. Of course you can completely disagree with me.
If you were to split them, would you put anime and western animation in separate categories?
The Org does. I would say in an international context, certainly in an English language context, animation made outside of Japan with no Japanese production staff involved in its production and/or no intent to distribute domestically for Japanese audiences is not anime. In Japan, in Japanese, we call everything animated anime (アニメ), whether it is a Disney princess movie, The Adventures of Tin Tin, or Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu. Even in Japan, however, there is an understanding that Japanese animation, as an art form, has distinct style elements, tropes, referential material, and domestic intertextuality (the stuff a reader or viewer brings with them to the work) that animation from outside Japan lacks. It's difficult to describe if you haven't been in a conversation, in Japanese, about it. But the important point is illustrated thus: Rainbow Brite was in part animated in Japan by a Japanese company, but under the auspices of DIC Entertainment (of France) and at the behest of rights holder Hallmark. Although well known in Japan, it was not produced for a domestic Japanese audience. It is アニメ but it is not (English language word with typical context) anime.

It's also worth noting that a lot of production houses in Japan have non-Japanese staff, and many contract out to non-Japanese animation studios in Korea or Vietnam. But because the story creation, boarding, character design, set choice, key frames, etc are all done in Japan by Japanese production houses for a Japanese domestic market (though with a greater eye towards international appeal than ever before), these productions are clearly anime.
Would computer-generated shows like Reboot get their own category separate from cel animation? Would video game footage be split into two categories depending on whether you used gameplay footage or cutscenes? What about games that include live-action cutscenes like the Command & Conquer franchise? If I were to make a music video using exclusively the live-action mission briefings from the Command & Conquer games, would that be a live-action music video or a video game music video? Do you treat pre-rendered cutscenes differently from ones that are rendered in-game on-the-fly? If cutscenes are pre-rendered CGI, does that put them in the same genre as Reboot? What about machinima footage that LOOKS like it's from a game, but is actually rendered using third-party software, like a lot of Minecraft videos are? What the hell would Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within count as? Most of all, if you were to split them into separate genres, where would you put the videos that combine footage from multiple sources, like this one that combines live-action, Western traditional cel animation, western CGI, anime, and multiple types of original fan-made content?
Answered. And that answer is "it depends."

I won't take on all of the hypotheticals you pose, but I'll do some. Something like Tokimeki Memorial so obviously hits all of the above aspects I mentioned, it's clearly anime. It's an anime video game. So is the Utena game. or the Higurashi games/visual novels. And for a long time (though that has changed) Final Fantasy sprites were being rendered in anime style for cut scenes or official art. And this reasoning is what was behind the Org generally allowing video games. However, I think, and I'd have to consult the rest of the admin team, a music video set to, say, Counter-Strike, would be out of bounds.

As far as Final Fantasy: Spirits Within... although the Org accepts it because of the moniker of FF, its Japanese directors, and its Japanese production house (Square Pictures), it was produced for an American audience and actually was supposed to be a proof of concept for creating virtual cast that would look the same but play different characters in different stories. I'm of the opinion editing with the source has more in common with live action than cel animation or the modern computer generated anime that is still supposed to appear cel animated to some degree. Unlike Disney's move in the princess films to "3D" CGI with Rapunzel, Frozen, Moana, etc, anime has very much NOT done that. I'm actually of the opinion I'd much rather that Disney did the same (of course, now they're all about live action remakes which is a rant for another time).

If you mix sources and therefore mix editing techniques, then you have created a mixed media production, which itself is something else again, or so I would say.

But that's just my two yen.
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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by the Black Monarch » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:42 pm

You seem to be under the impression that I was talking about Org policy. I was not. Dustin Grim's question was "Are GMVs a totally different kind of work/genre from AMVs?" and my answer was "Fan-made music videos are fan-made music videos... it's all one genre". The lines between genres, or the lack of such lines, exist (or don't) independently of what one person does or doesn't want to host on his website.
And that answer is "it depends."
In other words, you make up the boundaries between genres as you go along, proving that they're not really separate genres at all in any meaningful sense.


If you were to look at all 30-40 hours of my music video library, you would not see the words "live-action" or "game" anywhere, and you'd rarely see the word "anime". Instead, you'd see file names like "Evangelion music video - Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody (ShonenDizzyCow).mpg", "Transformers Aligned music video - Emphatic - Stronger.mp4" (with "Aligned" being the official name for the continuity containing the games Fall of Cybertron and War For Cybertron, the series Prime, and the movie Predacons Rising), and "Multi-franchise music video - Nalepa - Monday (Glitch Mob remix).mp4". My file names are systematized like this for a very good and very specific reason. It makes no sense to have my Star Wars videos scattered across a half-dozen places depending on exactly what combination of Star Wars materials they're pulling footage from (movies, CGI Clone Wars, cel animated Clone Wars, Force Unleashed cutscenes, etc.), or for my Transformers videos to be split up the same way, while the ones that take footage exclusively from the Bayformers movies get dumped in the same place as the Once Upon a Time music videos for no reason other than consisting exclusively of live-action content. It's better for all the SW videos to be in one place, all the Transformers videos to be in one place (subdivided by continuity if applicable), all the X-Men videos to be in one place, etc.

The exceptions, those extremely rare few videos with the word "anime" in the filename, are the ones that exclusively pull footage from anime sources, but don't seem to care what anime they get their clips from, nor about telling a coherent story. They have file names like "Orgy - Blue Monday anime music video.mpg" from Aluminum Studios and "MSI - Strаight tο Videο (Birthday Massacre remix) anime music video.mp4", with the artist and song coming first and the part about being anime coming last because it is the least important consideration when organizing videos.
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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by Kionon » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:37 pm

the Black Monarch wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:42 pm
You seem to be under the impression that I was talking about Org policy. I was not. Dustin Grim's question was "Are GMVs a totally different kind of work/genre from AMVs?" and my answer was "Fan-made music videos are fan-made music videos... it's all one genre". The lines between genres, or the lack of such lines, exist (or don't) independently of what one person does or doesn't want to host on his website.
I am not under that impression. I'm stating that, in general, my opinion aligns with Org policy. I believe Org policy (especially since I was, you know, peripheral to the discussion around that policy and have been a voice in conversations since to modify that policy) is based upon a set of opinions of how AMVs, GMVs, LAMVs, etc differ from each other materially and substantially. Not all music videos made with video games (see my Counter-Strike example) will fit into the anime style/anime trope, Japanese produced, Japanese domestic market intended to be included in the Org policy. Those included, however, I believe such "GMVs" have no difference materially or substantially from "AMVs" for the reasons I have already provided, I do believe such MVS are really A(VG)MVS, which are really just... AMVs.

My response was really to the assertion that LAMVs or Vidds are the same genre as AMVs. I have already explained my reasoning, and while I could do so again, I'm not sure of the point in doing so. If you're unconvinced, you're unconvinced. It neither rings my till nor picks my pocket if you don't agree with me on this aspect of fan crap theory.
In other words, you make up the boundaries between genres as you go along, proving that they're not really separate genres at all in any meaningful sense.
Please don't put words in my mouth (or text in my keyboard). This is absolutely not what I said. The boundaries exist, but art is messy. Comparing the list of aspects which give rise to any individual example in order to categorise it is fairly normal behavior for critical theorists. I'm not making them up, but they do obviously change shape to a small degree over time. I just disagree the change is substantive enough to declare the entire body of conclusions from decades of AMV discourse "making up boundaries as you go along" and leading to the conclusion "they're not really separate genres at all in any meaningful sense."
If you were to look at all 30-40 hours of my music video library, you would not see the words "live-action" or "game" anywhere, and you'd rarely see the word "anime".
I'm not sure how your personal organisational schema is relevant though.

For myself I have a folder marked AMVs. I have another folder marked LAMVs with only a few entries. Within the AMVs folder is Series - Year - Studio - Editor - Title.container, for example it might be Naruto - 2004 - LinkballZ Studios - Naruto's Constipated.mp4 (obviously not a real AMV). GMVs, all of which fall under the above A(VG)MVs description above and in previous posts, are in the AMVs folder... because they're AMVs. The one exception is , which as I said, is currently counted as an AMV, but truthfully, it doesn't quite deserve that title. The Org recognises it as such, so I've organised it such.

I don't really think my organisational scheme is relevant either. Just thought you might be interested in it.
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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by the Black Monarch » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:17 pm

It's not the organizational scheme itself that matters, but the reasoning behind it. The idea behind genres, or with organizational groupings in general, is that things within a single group are supposed to have more in common with each other than they do with things from sister groups, within the same parent group. Your organization scheme implies that Naruto videos from 2004 have more in common with each other than than they do with Naruto videos made in any other year, regardless of the song/artist used, which strikes me as insane.

While your stance on this question may superficially resemble org policy, mine is more in line with what the music video community as a whole is doing. The rise of file-sharing networks like Limewire, Kazaa, and Morpheus in 2001 allowed the music video hobby to spill far beyond the anime bubble, and even back then, we had people like 4Paws Studios and the Nuclear Tuxedo Production Team making both anime and live-action videos, and not distinguishing between the two. Then in 2006, Youtube became a thing, and the music video hobby began reaching beyond the file-sharing community. Nobody outside the anime bubble is talking about "live-action music videos" or "game music videos" or "mixed media" videos. They define their videos by the stories that they tell and the characters to whom they pay tribute. When someone makes a General Grievous tribute using footage from Episode III and both Clone wars series, it's a Star Wars music video. Period. Nobody cares that it's mixing live-action footage with two different kinds of animation. If someone makes a Transformers music video using exclusively clips from the Armadaverse (Armada, Energon, and Cybertron), it's a Transformers video. Period. Nobody outside the Org cares that the Armadaverse was made in Japan by Japanese studios for a Japanese audience and therefore it's technically an anime music video not a Western animation music video and blah blah blah. People care about Starscream's story, his relationship with Megatron, and his sacrifice to demonstrate the importance of the Autobots and Decepticons uniting to defeat Unicron. "Mixed-media" videos that stay within one franchise or continuity are quite common; by contrast, multi-franchise videos outside the anime bubble are rare and usually use instrumental tracks from Glitch Mob and Two Steps from Hell.

And speaking of Linkinball Z videos, what ever happened to those? I could have sworn that 15-20 years ago, someone did a study and found that there were between 60,000 and 70,000 Linkinball Z videos in existence, but a search on the Org today reveals only 1,534 results. Where'd the rest go?
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Re: GMV is a totally different genre ?

Post by Kionon » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:42 pm

Monarch, I've struggled over your last couple of posts not to call your responses patronising or rude. I tend to try to qualify (something you don't seem to do) by adding things like "I think" "I believe" "it is my opinion" "I perceive" etc. Furthermore I have attempted not to state absolutes or insist you believe what I believe. Unfortunately, you don't seem to want to grant me the same courtesy.

Ultimately it's just fan crap theory, is it really worth being this aggressive over?

It's just like our opinions, man.
the Black Monarch wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:17 pm
It's not the organizational scheme itself that matters, but the reasoning behind it. The idea behind genres, or with organizational groupings in general, is that things within a single group are supposed to have more in common with each other than they do with things from sister groups, within the same parent group. Your organization scheme implies that Naruto videos from 2004 have more in common with each other than than they do with Naruto videos made in any other year, regardless of the song/artist used, which strikes me as insane.
This is what i mean by patronising. Obviously I understand the idea behind genres. You make the assumption here that if I disagree with you on what the boundaries of those genres are, that I must not understand how organisational groupings function, and must need you to teach me the definition of organisational groupings. I did undergrad and post-grad, I got enough of this from professors when doing my masters coursework.

As to the point you raise about my use of years, I actually do believe that in general, one can trace changes in AMV style, production, and technology by paying attention to years, which is why years are important to me. That is a reasonable assertion. Calling it "insane" is not only unnecessary hyperbole, it's a good example of the kind of aggressive language you've tended to use in both of our (perhaps in others?) discussions so far. It certainly makes me not want to continue with you, not because I'm not interested in your fan crap theories (I am), but I'm not interested in being made out as silly or stupid.
While your stance on this question may superficially resemble org policy, mine is more in line with what the music video community as a whole is doing.
Superficially? This seems to suggest you think that my understanding isn't intimately tied up in AMV and Org history. It is, so superficial seems like an odd way to describe that my understanding closely aligns to Org policy. The two are intertwined. Nothing superficial about it.

As for your understanding, there's not one, but two assertions there you have yet to provide evidence to support: one that a "music video community as a whole" exists (I don't believe it does, even the way we talk about the "AMV community" is a contrivance given the fractionalised nature of the internet), and two that your understanding is more accurate than my own.
Nobody outside the anime bubble is talking about "live-action music videos" or "game music videos" or "mixed media" videos.
Maybe. But you're inside it, speaking to someone inside of it right now. You're in the "anime bubble" epistemic sphere, so don't be surprised when the epistemic rules are different.
Nobody outside the Org cares that the Armadaverse was made in Japan by Japanese studios for a Japanese audience and therefore it's technically an anime music video not a Western animation music video and blah blah blah.
...but you're coming into our house and telling us what we should believe about our own hobby? That's the way that paragraph reads to me, which is odd, because you're one of the oldest currently active members of the Org. This is the Org, and we have our own definitions, conceptualisations, etc. Not all of us, I would certainly like to hear from others. But you haven't really framed your arguments in way that seems respectful of what has been built here. And I don't mean the code for the website; I mean the discourse and community.

I'm also a current moderator, which means with the green name it sounds like I'm speaking for the Org, but I think I need to make a disclaimer that I'm not. I actually don't know how the other members of the admin and moderating team think. I really just am expounding on my own. But again, my views do align with Org policy, I've made it clear they come from decades of discussion and have complex reasoning behind them.

So far I've not felt that you accept people can have different opinions (at least on art) and they are just as smart, capable, and serious in those opinions as you are. It's perfectly acceptable to disagree. Indeed, it should be encouraged! How boring it would be if everyone believed the same. But no one should feel like others are putting them down.
And speaking of Linkinball Z videos, what ever happened to those? I could have sworn that 15-20 years ago, someone did a study and found that there were between 60,000 and 70,000 Linkinball Z videos in existence, but a search on the Org today reveals only 1,534 results. Where'd the rest go?
YouTube or lost. 90% of anything being crap, and what not, once file-sharing services like the ones you mention above fell out of favor with the masses, they stopped being traded, and as people's harddrives or what not failed or were wiped... I assume a lot of them just ceased to exist. But I don't know. It's pure conjecture.
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