Where does the church get $55mil?

[jonmartensen]

WEll, I know a great way to solve all the problems of wellfare and get everyone to stop bitching about it (especially since it's just a way for "some fat asses" to keep the poor in their place)

Get rid of it.

No more inequallities that way.

[fyrtenheimer]

This is why we all lUv you, Jon.

[klinky]

I don't WANT TO write an essay. Yes, it's write not right.

The thing is mr klink, that there's other things they have to pay for their family. More money on food, bigger house is usually bigger rent, mortagage, whatever, clothing for those beautiful children and whatever else. It only MAKES SENSE to get a 'discount' on important things like healthcare.

Yep, your ideas are like many. Reduce responsibility of the parents. Who's fault is it they had kids? Not the governments, not the corporations. Who's using the parks, the schools, those diaper changing stations in the bathroom?

Of course it costs more to raise a child, but you would think that the people who decided to have children would have thought about that BEFORE they had the kids. They should have had money aside for that child. They should have everything in order. Just because you're bringing another human into this world doesn't mean you should get rewarded for it.

Arigatomyna doesn't like seeing poor people get rewarded for popping out another kid. I don't like seeing middle-class people or upper class people get rewarded for having kids. Yes they do get rewarded. Just because someone decided to make their life more difficult, doesn't mean they need to get a bonus for having another kid.

Frankley WHY does someone need a kid? There is no purpose to children these days. We have enough children already. You should have a good reason to have a child. If you don't have a good reason to have a child. DON'T HAVE A KID. If you don't have the money available to raise that child then you should NOT HAVE THE CHILD! If you do not have an exact plan as to how you're going to get that kid through college, DO NOT HAVE A CHILD. If you cannot afford healthcare for that child DO NOT HAVE A CHILD!

Jon I am right with you there on getting rid of it. I would love to do that. Let's get rid of it for everyone.

*Remove welfare
*Remove 'family incentives' - anything that gives people free money for causing more problems by having kids.
*Free birth control. <--BIG!!! +++
*Pass a test and show finacial proof that you can raise a child. <---important. I'd like to see offenders get sterilized for breaking this one.
*Flat tax for everyone.
*No tax shelters, no tax cuts for the rich.
*Every corporation will have to be assessed for it's ecological impacts and will be fined/taxed accordingly. There are no breaks. There is a set minimum, but any company that pollutes more will have to pay more and will be responsible for the area around it. This I hope would lead to more innovation. Alot of shit is cheap because companies don't have to pay for all the shit they're dumping into the enviroment, let that play a factor and we'll see what happens.
*Housing/healthcare for everyone. Included in the flat tax will be a government run healthcare system. All utilities that are deemed human needs for proper functioning in society will be government run. That would basically be, water & electric. The private sector has already fucked us over on electricity. I don't think the public sector could do worse. Everyone who works deserves a place to stay. Everyone wants some free space. I would say cheap affordable housing created from economical & ecological products would be excellent.

The problem with this I think is too many people would be considered equal. Also you remove that "creative" factor from humans. There is also I guess the removal of a large amount of greed and desperation. Maybe it's humans who want to always be desparate, always want to feel like there is a race going on and they have to be at the top. People get caught up in their own lives so quickly. It's funny when I see some woman getting out of her SUV, shuffling papers around in a suitcase while kids scream in the background and she's trying to do 200 things at once. Oh and this is all taking place by a busy crowed intersection on a hot summer day. She never stops and thinks "WTF was all this for?". Maybe she was brainwashed. But she finds her papers, gets back in her most likely leased SUV to take the kids to soccer camp or something. Then back to work she goes. Yeah, that sounds like a good life.

Who knows maybe some people enjoy it. I see it as a waste and that wasteful lifestyle is going to destroy everything.

Bah ok : O. Klinky is done...

[KungPaoChicken]

damn commie.

[RedFusionX]

I am going to hell for saying this, but...

The Catholic Church is the best money scam in the world

[klinky]

Yeah...




Boy american is so good... I have everything I need on credit. So long as I work myself into the ground for 60hrs a week I'll be ok. Now if only I could get this cancer I have treated, then I'd be just dandy...

[klinky]

I am going to hell for saying this, but...

The Catholic Church is the best money scam in the world

All religions are scams. Charging people to tell them what they already know. And if they don't know, I think the people need to fall off a cliff.

Don't kill someone.
Don't hurt someone.


SHIT!

[RedFusionX]

I agree, I am religious, but I don't need to go to church and listen to them tell me about how everything I do is bad, and I am going to hell.

I am stationed in a town located in the southern Bible belt, and I was called an athiest the other day outside Wal Mart because I wouldn't donate to their church.

[kthulhu]

Frankley WHY does someone need a kid? There is no purpose to children these days. We have enough children already.

Technically, in the First World, we don't. Native birthrates have gone down to "unsustainable" (in an economic and social sense) levels. Immigration picks up the slack, although without proper oversight and policy, that can introduce new problems.

Here in the US, it's service work, usually done by Mexicans. In Europe, North African and Middle Eastern immigrants fill that role. Sweden, for instance, is so concerned about their birthrate that, in the hopes of increasing it, they've proposed to put porn on late night TV to make people horny. Japan is becoming concerned about their aging population and low birthrate - fewer young people means fewer medical workers, especially if it's unpleasant work.

So, no, we don't necessarily have enough children.

*Remove welfare

You were giving me shit over something far less harsh than that idea a few days back. Removing welfare completely won't really help much - it'll flood the low end labor market. Those who can't be hired will become homeless. Many will resort to crime. And the government will more than likely sink the money they save in some other program.

A solution I like is a "cutoff" limit. Two kids (since twins are somewhat common), then you get a choice of free sterilization or no more welfare for any additional. Rare multiple births (such as triplets) would be exempted, so long as there's a valid doctor's statement.

*Remove 'family incentives' - anything that gives people free money for causing more problems by having kids.

Without children, we may as well forfeit the US to the Third World.

*Free birth control. <--BIG!!! +++

Sure.

*Pass a test and show finacial proof that you can raise a child. <---important. I'd like to see offenders get sterilized for breaking this one.

I'm all for parenting classes. A license to breed sounds good, but...

What's good financial proof? Savings? Most people are lucky to have $20,000 in the bank by the end of their most fertile years. Stocks? Those are fluctuating assets. A job? People go through several in their lives.

*Flat tax for everyone.

How much? Remember, too, that for a rich person, income tax isn't much of an issue. They don't work, so much as collect. Are you willing to cut the government down, too?

*No tax shelters, no tax cuts for the rich.

Considering you've proposed a flat tax (income, I suppose) this doesn't really make much sense, or have much effect. The rich don't pay much in taxes.

*Every corporation will have to be assessed for it's ecological impacts and will be fined/taxed accordingly. There are no breaks. There is a set minimum, but any company that pollutes more will have to pay more and will be responsible for the area around it.

In which case, they'll just move overseas even faster than they are now, where they can do what they want. Not that enviromental accountability is a bad thing, but seriously - it'll be cheaper to shift operations out of the country in that regard.

This I hope would lead to more innovation. Alot of shit is cheap because companies don't have to pay for all the shit they're dumping into the enviroment, let that play a factor and we'll see what happens.

See my previous reply. Move to Third World, pay less for labor, dump even more crap, prices stay low - everyone is happy, except for the Third World people who have to deal with the mess, and the American workers who are out of a job.

*Housing/healthcare for everyone. Included in the flat tax will be a government run healthcare system. All utilities that are deemed human needs for proper functioning in society will be government run.

Isn't that just another form of welfare? And what type of housing?

That would basically be, water & electric. The private sector has already fucked us over on electricity. I don't think the public sector could do worse. Everyone who works deserves a place to stay. Everyone wants some free space. I would say cheap affordable housing created from economical & ecological products would be excellent.

Again, what type of housing? And who's eligible? If people who could otherwise afford their own are paying tax, do they get a free house?

The problem with this I think is too many people would be considered equal. Also you remove that "creative" factor from humans. There is also I guess the removal of a large amount of greed and desperation. Maybe it's humans who want to always be desparate, always want to feel like there is a race going on and they have to be at the top.

It's what has gotten us to this point. If we can overcome our more base natures, we COULD possibly have a great world, where everyone is secure and free to pursue their own desires.

People get caught up in their own lives so quickly. It's funny when I see some woman getting out of her SUV, shuffling papers around in a suitcase while kids scream in the background and she's trying to do 200 things at once. Oh and this is all taking place by a busy crowed intersection on a hot summer day. She never stops and thinks "WTF was all this for?". Maybe she was brainwashed. But she finds her papers, gets back in her most likely leased SUV to take the kids to soccer camp or something. Then back to work she goes. Yeah, that sounds like a good life.

And yet your vision is superior...how?

Who knows maybe some people enjoy it. I see it as a waste and that wasteful lifestyle is going to destroy everything.

It's called free will and thought. Thinking the same way leads us to totalitarianism. And the wasteful lifestyle doesn't have to be wasteful.

Bah ok : O. Klinky is done...

Considering how many of your thoughts are incomplete, I don't think you really even started .

[jonmartensen]

Wow, there's a lot to quote between the two K guys, so I guess I'll just refer to some of the issues brought up for brevity's sake.

Klinky, all the stuff you suggested (well...almost all)
The only problem is that some is idealistic and/or impractical. I think Kthulhu pointed out all the things I dissented on (and then some...)

Kthulu, also an for pointing out all of the practicallity problems

For general (and in relation to points that have been brought up) I would like to point out that there is a replacement rate of 2.11 birth's per woman requied to maintain a population(specifically the US, things such as disease rates and child mortallity rates are factored into this number {it is similar in most other 1st world countries [very small variations]}). During the 70's and 80's the rate dipped to an all time low of 1.738 and has steadilly climbed to 2.13 (composited from 3.11 for hispanics, 2.19 for blacks, and 2.11 for whites)

The EU is at the extreamely low level of 1.45 at this point in time.

Ideally the rate of birth would fluctuate above and below the 2.11 rate by a very small amount over periods of 50, or so, years.


The rich not paying much in taxes is a misconception. The only rich people who aren't effected by taxes that much, are the ones who inherited it from their hardworking great/great/grand/parents. Anyone who makes large amounts of money from enterprise pay an equally hefty tax. The problem arises when money gets handled in an "unethical" manner (and what's sad is that this isn't uncommon to the larger buisinesses)

And agreably, a flat tax on income is quite ideal, unfortunately it's not something that can practically be initiated in a short period of time. I think, given time to slowly switch to it, it is a viable tax method.


The housing I disagree with, unless it is offered at a low, equall, price to everyone that lived there, and as long as the only quallification is "if you can pay for it you can live here" (poor, rich, somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't matter)


I think I adressed the few issues I wanted to, hope it isn't to verbose or jumbled (I usually have difficulty fully expressing my ideas {and my train of though goes all over the place [that's why I sometime use multiple brackets]}) I think I have ADD . . . . :p