One of the main reasons I thought the war was a bad idea...

Lyrs · Post by **Lyrs** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:44 pm

KungPaoChicken wrote:almost 500 billlion dollars in national debt makes baby Jesus cry.

It's good for the economy.

/end

madmallard · Post by **madmallard** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:08 pm

MistyCaldwell wrote:
sixstop wrote:
People who claim to be 'outside' a party boundary, or whatever, are usually ill educated on where the views they have actually fall, or (the more oft true) dont have enough fortitude to stick to an ideals set and settle into a non-commital state that makes no development.
Boy is that bass akwards

Ill educated because their views fall outside a party boundary?

Check the English. thats not what I said.

For example, let's take an issue like abortion. I am not pro-choice (common democrat platform stance) or pro-life (common republican platform stance) Instead I think that before 13 weeks, while the fetus has basically not developed a complete nervous system and could not live if born at that time...then abortion is fine no matter what the woman's situation. Late term abortion is ok in my opinion if the baby has severe defects or life threatening problems should it go to full term. This so called "partial birth abortion" is nothing more than a fancy term for infant murder. Sucking it out in pieces when it could have lived (as premature babies can be saved even at 6 1/2 to 7 months sometimes) is nothing but sheer murder.

Now, that is very off topic and please..no discussion in this thread about that because I am using it as an EXAMPLE of a view that does not fit either party.

At which point did i say it had to be 2 parties? If anything your view reflect libritarian views with a democrat slant. Why? Because most republicans have the thinking that abortions ideally shouldn't be needed except in EXTREME cases. Republicans fear use of the procedure as a form of birth control of the irresponsible and immoral,becausethey believe the fact that pregnancies aren't by "accident." Democrats somehow believe by controlling the use of the procedure you are restricting personal liberty needlessly for those who have serious concerns about having an abortion for medical reasons.

Can you read that and tell me that I am ill educated on the issue? Well, if you did, you'd be wrong...but I guess that doesn't stop some people.

Again.. .read what i said. You need to work on recognition. I said

ill educated on where the views they have actually fall. ..

You obviously DO fall into this category, since despite having formed an opinion, you gleefully profess to have nothing to do with the "2 party line or views." You dont have to be in a party to share its views.

Parties were supposed to help keep the system in balance between differing kinds of thought...but since there is no set on how many of each party can occupy the branches of government, you can have a red/blue split that gives one party more power over the issues in the house.

In reality, people use the terms like ignorant clubs to hit over the heads of other people. Citizens (and even politicians) will change their views to suit the common view shared by that LABEL. I have seen it happen. That makes them sheep.
But for some people it's easier to be a sheep than to actually think out YOUR view on a topic now isn't it?

what does that make you, anime fan? AMV fan? thats a splendidly eleetist and narrowminded view of said groups you just displayed. It most certainly does not make them like 'sheep.' The individual is responsible for making themselves "sheep like," not some phantom organizational hypnotism. Democracy rewards the lazy and can only be understood by the driven. This is why the public is apathetic, because at the core of it, what the $#%$#@% does an American have to complain about in their lifestyle compared to the rest of the world? Sure it could be better in America just like everywhere else, but the lazy apathetics complain only about what relates directly to them. And as long as they're taken care of, they don't care what else gets slid in under the table along with it. THAT makes them sheeplike, because they whine about the same things as a group and let someone else fix them without concern.

Changing yourself and your views to suit a party label or a club label does not make you sheep like, and that is the most exacerbating piece of ignorant conclusion drawing i've seen in a long time. If thats true what does that make a man learning about Judaism? What does that make a woman taking martial arts, or dance? What does that make eveyone at an anime con or an online forum?

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:13 pm

KungPaoChicken wrote:almost 500 billlion dollars in national debt makes baby Jesus cry.

No shit.

Hey, Kazutaka, it's always propaganda if you disagree with it

madmallard · Post by **madmallard** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:18 pm

Kazutaka wrote:
American capitolism and greed spreading like a virus to infect all the rest of the world.

If thats your view, then fine. Cuba is right down the lane. Go see how communism works for you.

Wonders if 60% of the population over there will be driving(wait dont think they really have many cars do they?) riding thier bikes, or walking waving ridiculous American flags around. While the other 40% burns all the symbols of "Evil American Greed".

That is if you trust that the "poll" was ever taken. I personally think it was the product of journalism imagination. AKA = PROPAGANDA.

well go discuss it with CBS, it was their poll. I'll dig up a link later when I'm home.

besides, the poll doesn't mean 40% of them hate america, there was an option for 'i dont know'on the pole too, though its number eludes me.

madmallard · Post by **madmallard** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:36 pm

Ahh a literate response.

*claps hands* okay

SSJVegita0609 wrote: Perhaps I should rephrase, its more of a "I think they do more harm than good" situation. There's too much partisan politics involved, many debates I see on television strike me as far less of a discussion about what's do be done with certain issues and far more of a discussion on what the other political party has done wrong. I think idealisticly the idea of having political parties is a sound one, but it just hasn't worked out and does nothing but hamper progress with mindless bickering. Plus is encourages apathy throughout the country on the part of the citizens. Many people, in fact the MAJORITY of people who vote do so strictly on a one party basis. I see too much blind support of candidates simply based on the political party they're in. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that ALL voting is based on it, but you must admit that after observing the events in the last election with SO much protesting and partisan attacks by supporters of BOTH sides, the party system has become more of a US popularity contest. Whichever party has more members throughout the country wins, and thats not how it should be.

well, yes and no. The Majority wins popular elections. that -is- how it works, hate to break it to ya. :/ I don't like the idea of voting straight ticket myself, because its a refuge of the lazy, but that they do vote means that they have usually AT LEAST ONE issue in mind thats important to them that a candidate or a party caters to. I don't think thats wrong as long as the voter has their priorities straight.

Bernard Shaw, a socialist party member, even said "Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve."

but a big problem is locals dont pay enough attention to their own local election, thus inflating the importance of the federal government over their own locas state.

Kazutaka · Post by **Kazutaka** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:20 pm

I have friends in Cuba. Have you been there? Do you really know how they live? Communism does not work for me or anyone else any more than Democracy works, because all political systems are inheritly flawed. This country is NOT a Democracy its a REPUBLIC and given enough time it WILL fail just as Communism will fail.
And do you believe EVERYTHING that you see/read or hear on the news?
Do you just mindlessly believe everything you are told by the government?
No, it is not always propaganda if you disagree with it.

propaganda
/prp"gnd/ noun 1 organized propagation of a doctrine etc. 2 usually derogatory ideas etc. so propagated. propagandist noun.

·advertising, brainwashing, disinformation, indoctrination, persuasion, publicity.

Is a response always illiterate if you dont agree with it.

HungryCrackPot · Post by **HungryCrackPot** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:33 pm

i haven't flown in years

madmallard · Post by **madmallard** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:09 pm

Kazutaka wrote:I have friends in Cuba. Have you been there? Do you really know how they live? Communism does not work for me or anyone else any more than Democracy works, because all political systems are inheritly flawed.

then you need to more clearly communicate your sentiment. but you know what? I already said it, lets ask 30,000 cubans if they'd want to live in america, and ask 30,000 americans if they'd want to live in Cuba. I will agree that all political systems are inherently flawed, but by your words as "capitolism" spreading like a virus, the alternative is communism.

I was concinved you had a distinct position, but this just showed you're a fatalist, and apathetic.

This country is NOT a Democracy its a REPUBLIC and given enough time it WILL fail just as Communism will fail.

not true, the federal government is an Electoral Democratic Republic. most local (state) are popular democracies.

And do you believe EVERYTHING that you see/read or hear on the news?
Do you just mindlessly believe everything you are told by the government?
No, it is not always propaganda if you disagree with it.

propaganda
/prp"gnd/ noun 1 organized propagation of a doctrine etc. 2 usually derogatory ideas etc. so propagated. propagandist noun.

·advertising, brainwashing, disinformation, indoctrination, persuasion, publicity.

Is a response always illiterate if you dont agree with it.

no but you dont produce a substantial arguement to supplement your views while belligerantly stating your views. Thats a turn-off you know, and tends to draw comments like 'illiterate.' Maybe if you armed yourself with some contrary articles in the news site. . .

oh but wait, you don't believe anything the news or the government spits out. journalist imagination.

Nobody ever said news was infallable, or government.

MAS PRODUCTIONS · Post by **MAS PRODUCTIONS** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:13 pm

This isn't related to the war, but propaganda sux major ass. ok Im done.

SSJVegita0609 · Post by **SSJVegita0609** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:21 pm

sixstop wrote: well, yes and no. The Majority wins popular elections. that -is- how it works, hate to break it to ya. :/

Except in that last election... ZING!

Other than that I have nothing else to argue in this matter.