Anime or Animes [linguistic discussion]

Locked
User avatar
Otohiko
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 8:32 pm
Org Profile

Post by Otohiko » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:05 pm

HeartbreakerByZep wrote: The thing is, English isn't like Japanese. In English we can produce an extreme variety of sounds, whereas the Japanese Language is set-up in a more structured way. Due to English's lack of structure, it would be simple as pie to have "anime" be pronounced the same way that it is done in Japanese.
{oh christ, here I go again...}

That's pretty much true. English doesn't have an extreme variety at all, actually, but it does have a larger phoneme set than Japanese. The larger reasons for Engrish are

a) syllable structure. Japanese only accepts one-vowel or consonant-vowel syllables (with one CVC exception), whereas English can have as many as 6 sounds per syllable (maybe even 7, can't think of any). That causes them to totally mess up everything and insert vowels where they don't belong.

b) English's hellishly complex vowel system. Although they write differently, you could say Japanese writing only has 5 possible vowels it can indicate, and you can only pronounce each of them one way. English has 5 vowel letters responsible for 23 possible combos. Go figure.

:roll:
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

User avatar
Kajino Rei
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:39 pm
Status: Rising Phoenix.
Location: Here and there...
Org Profile

Post by Kajino Rei » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:06 pm

Otohiko
English is just tricky. How you read/say/derive forms of many common words in English actually depends on their historical origin (most standard English words come from Old English, Old French, Modern French, Latin and Greek).
You forgot German, at least for the English in the US. German is mainly the reason for some of the drastic differences between British English (original) and English spoken through the US.

:D

***
Missing the eye roll.
:twisted: Guide to how NOT to behave in the ORG

Resident "If you're stupid, I'll kill you" Katana Wielding Woman.

User avatar
Otohiko
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 8:32 pm
Org Profile

Post by Otohiko » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:10 pm

Hmm, maybe, I haven't heard about German being a factor.
(there's one language I learned but forgot)

But chances are, actually, that the reason German might not be included is that English is actually a Germanic language (whereas French, Latin and Greek are not). Old English's phonetic system is almost identical to German.

Well, maybe. Not 100% sure about that one, really :roll:
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

User avatar
Kajino Rei
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:39 pm
Status: Rising Phoenix.
Location: Here and there...
Org Profile

Post by Kajino Rei » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:13 pm

HeartbreakerByZep
But it is an english word. In Japanese, the word anime (pronounced correctly as the Japanese do) is a word for any animation. From commercails to Disney to Evangelion and anywhere else animation goes. However, in America, the word anime means animation from Japan, or animation that is Japanese. The meaning is different, so the word is changed.
You're right and wrong.

The word is entirely Japanese; the people in the West just gave it a new meaning.

So anime and animes can be viewed as different things, from a true purist linguistic POV.

Anime= animation in Japanese and in some cases the singular form of animes in the West.

Animes = plural of anime as known in the West.

Something like that.

:roll:

***
Ah back again.
:twisted: Guide to how NOT to behave in the ORG

Resident "If you're stupid, I'll kill you" Katana Wielding Woman.

User avatar
Kajino Rei
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:39 pm
Status: Rising Phoenix.
Location: Here and there...
Org Profile

Post by Kajino Rei » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:19 pm

Hmm, maybe, I haven't heard about German being a factor.
German is the biggest factor but I'm not going into details because it would mean explaining a lot of the US history circa the Independence War.
But chances are, actually, that the reason German might not be included is that English is actually a Germanic language (whereas French, Latin and Greek are not). Old English's phonetic system is almost identical to German.
And I'm glad French, Spanish and the other Latin/Romantic languages are not Germanic. Since the Romantic Languages developed faster and sooner than the Germanic, they did have some influence.

:roll:
:twisted: Guide to how NOT to behave in the ORG

Resident "If you're stupid, I'll kill you" Katana Wielding Woman.

User avatar
Otohiko
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 8:32 pm
Org Profile

Post by Otohiko » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:20 pm

Actually... anime is not a Japanese word, linguistically speaking. I think it came to Japan via France (although I'm sure animation isn't called 'anime' there).

I'm not sure where it originated, but it wasn't English. I have a hunch that it has a Latin root, based on its' structure. If it does, than the Japanese pronounciation is much closer to the original than the English one :roll:

As far as the plural... go figure. :roll:
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

User avatar
Kajino Rei
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:39 pm
Status: Rising Phoenix.
Location: Here and there...
Org Profile

Post by Kajino Rei » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:25 pm

*searches in brain*

Well in French there are two words:

anime = busy

animé - animated

:wink:
:twisted: Guide to how NOT to behave in the ORG

Resident "If you're stupid, I'll kill you" Katana Wielding Woman.

User avatar
Kalium
Sir Bugsalot
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:17 pm
Location: Plymouth, Michigan
Org Profile

Post by Kalium » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:27 pm

Kajino Rei wrote: anime = busy

animé - animated
Well, those would actually have the same Latin root, which means motion or something similar.

User avatar
Coffee 54
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 8:26 am
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Coffee 54 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:30 pm

You know, Ive learn more about the languages of the world from this one thread then I did in four years of high school. You smart people rock!

User avatar
Kajino Rei
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:39 pm
Status: Rising Phoenix.
Location: Here and there...
Org Profile

Post by Kajino Rei » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:31 pm

True Kalium.
God bless the Ancient Romans. 8)

Exactly, that's what I meant to say, that the word "exists" but the meaning is in no way correlated to the Japanese anime.

It's not visual, drawn animation that they're talking about.

:D
:twisted: Guide to how NOT to behave in the ORG

Resident "If you're stupid, I'll kill you" Katana Wielding Woman.

Locked

Return to “General Anime”