A thought on pre-concieved AMV ideas...

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Bakadeshi [AuN Studios]
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Re: A thought on pre-concieved AMV ideas...

Post by Bakadeshi [AuN Studios] » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:07 am

SSJVegita0609 wrote:
Coffee 54 wrote: Oh, incidentally, I included the link to the video because Mr. Vegita, you still owe me an op on that one.
:shock: I'm so sorry sir, I'd totally forgotten about that since my hardrive crashed. Expect it done within 24 hours.

As for the rest of you, namely those arguing that I'm trying to slander originality. I think you're taking what I'm saying more extremely than I'm meaning it to be. What I stated was the use of an aspect of the anime (INCLUDING the mood, rubyeye) and using a song that truely emphasized it. I'm not talking about straight rehashing of what you've already seen or understood, I'm talking about EMPHASIZING it, looking at it in a new light. I can go back to Eden for this. Videos like it are taking something out of the anime, in this case a very strong message, and artistically bombarding it upon the viewer. Hell, I know people that entirely missed the philosophical aspects of Trigun and watched it purely for the sake of the comedy and action. But I could show them that video and they could suddenly take the series in a whole new light.

I'm not as extreme in my views on this as Beo is, I'm not proclaiming that anything that shamelessly uses After Effects "sucks". I think people can make and enjoy whatever they want.

The entire purpose of this thread was just for people to discuss why the AMV world seems to be progressing in the direction it is.
Incidentally this is what I tried to do In Angels Redemption, and it was still received well. (even by some who havn't seen it) Its bringing to light an aspect of the series and emphasizing it. (the darker side of Ayashi no ceres) Actually Swallow probably is the same aswell. I personally like to view both styles. But I do see were your comming from, alot of people these days are making more original video ideas rather than emphasizing an aspect of the show.

I think too much emphasis is being placed on Originality these days which is causing people to trend more towards that. Especially since so many new editors are hitting the scene so quickly now, with how easy/cheap descent editing software is getting, so its harder to be original in that area.
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Post by Bote » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:22 am

Videos that don't tell the story similar to the anime are much harder to pull off than the ones that'll follow it (personal view). That is why I give more credit to the editors that try something not in connection with the show. However, I find it more enjoyable and deeper to edit according to the show than making up the story. Or as Vegita said "plain old character profile". For some reason I see a lot bigger magnitude and power in them. I too enjoy MAD's, but one thing that MAD's don't have is soul. While most of them are technically and visually impressive the emptyness is quite noticable. I'm not talking about lack of emotion, but some strange feeling that I get while viewing them. Something I simply call "emptyness".

Strange, the MAD editors (I mainly think about Piano's interview) say that they don't want their videos to be without meaningful content and that they mainly care for concept, not technicialities. Unfortunately, I can't be convinced that "Secret Waltz" or "To the appointed place" have meaningful content. I haven't checked his other stuff, but for some reason I got the feeling that I won't miss much.

Also the music, as rubyeye first mentioned, means a lot in a video. For a viewer that doesn't know Japanesse how can a video have meaning? I suppose most of the videos that are done by Jap. editors to jap. songs follow the lyrics. If not so, how can anyone that has knowledge of a language the song uses completely ignore what the song is about? The lyrics of the song are one of the crucial parts that need to be done in a video even if it meant only partial following, it must be present. If you completely ignore them then you've completely missed it. When it's up to instrumental music, that's a completely different area of discussion and is approached much more differently.

My thoughts about jpop/rock videos are always the same: What would a jap. say about it? Every sane man would say it's garbage if the footage has nothing to do with the lyrics. The same would definately be with every language. If there is a sword fight on the screen and the singer sings about how she likes to go shopping how do you call that video? Crap. It's something everyone normal or someone with a bit of anime/AMV knowledge would say, other than "WTF?!" :P.

To make a long story short: I like making all types of videos and have made most so far, I like watching all types of videos and I enjoyed at least several from each category, I give credit to all types of editors for their work but to some I give more credit cause its rather obvious why.

What distinguishes 2 groups of different editors is the thing they put more thought in: soul or techniciality. However, there are videos that are simply a fusion of both and it's no wonder those videos are highly accepted, respected and popular. To name a few: Euphoria, Odorikuru, Tainted Doughnuts, Shameless Rock, Doujin Addiction, Believe, EvaBebop. Those are fine examples of the "middle-type" (if we're dividing the community) that should be more than enough for both tastes. But, if your taste is at such level of blindness that you "hate" or "get annoyed by the other" then I'm afraid there's no hope for you.
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Post by WilLoW :--) » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:22 am

I would agree with Zarxrax, Kalium and rubyeye.

I think "old-school" AMVs were closer to the anime more because of technical limitations than a real will from the creator.

Today we have computers and software that allow us to be far more creative than before... this is a possibility for AMV creators to show that they are more than "copiers" but real creators...(may I say "artists ?")

Of course there are people who use effects and stuff for the "sake of it", but there are also people who use them to convey a meaning, and the resulting videos are often better than a "simpler" AMV.

I'll add that I've shown lots of AMVs to people who dislike/don't know Anime, and for them, a "simple" AMV is generally boring, whereas they can see the work that's been put in a video that tries to be different from the original Anime (and actualy enjoy that kind of video).
Zarxrax wrote: If you're just gunna regurgitate the anime's damn story in your amv, then why watch the amv at all? Just watch the series instead, and you will get the same thing out of it.
+1

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Post by Voices_Of_Ryan » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:39 am

Zarxrax wrote:If you're just gunna regurgitate the anime's damn story in your amv, then why watch the amv at all? Just watch the series instead, and you will get the same thing out of it.
Actually doing something creative with the source allows you to create something new and interesting, but most importantly, something that people didn't watch already.

While I'm not saying these types of videos are bad (heck, maybe I've even made one or two), they certainly aren't nearly as entertaining as more original videos, to me at least.
:) The exact way I see it.

Well that, and shamefully I can't say i'm a huge fan of some of the anime I use (Samurai hunt for the sword was miserable) so sticking close to the actualy story would ensure that your video is as horrible as the anime...
And that would be dumb.

I just use the animation, afterall... Thats what anime is basicly right? If it wasnt animation we'd just be watching live action.
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Post by Bakadeshi [AuN Studios] » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:46 am

WilLoW :--) wrote:
Zarxrax wrote: If you're just gunna regurgitate the anime's damn story in your amv, then why watch the amv at all? Just watch the series instead, and you will get the same thing out of it.
+1
Well, while I would tend to agree, the nice thing about those though, is that instead of watching the entire 26 episodes again, you can get the same feeling in a 3-4 minute AMV, if done right. Its for nastolgia's sake so to speak. (if I spelled that right) Of course this is only valid if you've seen the series in question already.
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Post by doughboy » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:55 am

Zarxrax wrote:If you're just gunna regurgitate the anime's damn story in your amv, then why watch the amv at all? Just watch the series
For this reason alone:
Jebadia wrote:I remember watching videos using anime that I haven't seen and just getting FLOORED to run out and somehow see that preticular show (which is how I discovered most of my anime).
Also, watching a comedic Eva video is a completely different experience to watching the whole show. Playing the first episode alone would make you go "wtf is this?" Sometimes taking just an element of a show is more entertaining then sitting through several episodes, and in an action sense you can just bask in the glory of all the well-animated sections instead of putting up with teh inconsistent budget that plagues even the best shows.

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Post by TaranT » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:10 pm

While I've enjoyed AMVs like "Tainted Donuts" and "Senshi On Springer" as much as anyone else, I have started to wonder just what is the point...what is the point in using anime if you're not going to use the animation? Instead of letting scenes play out, we're seeing anime cut up, chopped up, sliced and diced and hacked into little pieces until there is no recognizable connection to the original except the use of someone else's artwork. (Reminds me of a collage of pictures cut out from magazines - except on a movie screen.)

But...the good ones are still fun to watch.

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Post by paizuri » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:48 pm

TaranT wrote:While I've enjoyed AMVs like "Tainted Donuts" and "Senshi On Springer" as much as anyone else, I have started to wonder just what is the point...what is the point in using anime if you're not going to use the animation? Instead of letting scenes play out, we're seeing anime cut up, chopped up, sliced and diced and hacked into little pieces until there is no recognizable connection to the original except the use of someone else's artwork. (Reminds me of a collage of pictures cut out from magazines - except on a movie screen.)

But...the good ones are still fun to watch.
I think it's called editing.
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Post by Flint the Dwarf » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:06 pm

I tried that excuse on the cops.

"I was just editing him, officer, I swears it."
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Post by badmartialarts » Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:32 pm

As a relatively new creator, I think I might be able to weigh in a bit here, but only a tiny bit. Like a half-penny, instead of two cents.

Anyway, my two highest hit, highest downloaded videos are Megalomania and What Lain Bought on eBay. Megalomania was a weak attempt to show the more serious nature of Excel Saga. It didn't work out too well. But the editing isn't too terrible, I guess, and people are meh about it, but it still gets hits, likely due to the song/anime choice being a bit unique (Incubus - Megalomaniac to Excel Saga). I didn't really have to twist Excel Saga much to create the video, though.

Now the other video, What Lain Bought on eBay, was a joy to make and seems to be pretty popular. I threw out everything about the show and instead used to footage and the song (Weird Al's song 'eBay') to portray Lain as a eBay junkie. It's gotten the most positive response of all my videos to date. The editing is...okay. Every time I watch a couple of scenes I wince because I know they're wrong, whereas with Megalomania everything was dead on where I wanted it.

I think the difference is a more solid, accessible concept. And that's what's most important, from my view. If the concept is strong, and every scene builds on it, then it's going to be a good video, whether it's a Vegeta tribute or a true Lain character profile or a evil bendy concept that twists the original source to it's breaking point. The concept has to shine through, or else there was no point sitting down and creating the video.
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