Damn Bigotted Liberals

[UncleMilo]

Just some quick comments.

One... I am very tired of the word "liberal" being used as some insulting term. It was liberal minded thinkers who wanted to overthrow the yoke of English tyrany back in the 1700s and help create America as a free and independent nation (despite the protests of conservatives in the congress)

There are fanatical liberals and fanatical conservatives to be sure and those guys scare me... but when I look at the conservative mindset and the liberal mindset of those who are "the norm", I am often disueded by the conservative viewpoint.

If it wasn't for my liberal upbringing, I would have never discovered foriegn films... and through my appretiation of cultures different from my own, I would eventually discover anime... (back then anime wasn't nearly as available as it is today)

Now, I know that's one tiny example, but I'm going to stop there on that subject.


I did want to make one comment to Cyanna...

When people say "Bush is not my president", this is more due to the fact that many (myself included) believe that there was foul play in the counting of votes for the Bush/Gore election and that Bush stole the election.

I agree with your point. If Bush had simply won without any air of controversy, then yes... Bush would be the president because it was the choice of the majority.

I wasn't happy with Reagan or the other Bush, but I never felt that these men were "NOT my president." I do, however, feel that this current Bush fits the line. Ignoring the whole Florida thing, more Americans did vote for Gore than Bush.

Anyway...I'm not here to debate... just offering some thoughts based on what I read.

-Uncle Milo

[Tab.]

I voted for ross perot

[Cyanna]

Just some quick comments.

One... I am very tired of the word "liberal" being used as some insulting term. It was liberal minded thinkers who wanted to overthrow the yoke of English tyrany back in the 1700s and help create America as a free and independent nation (despite the protests of conservatives in the congress)

There are fanatical liberals and fanatical conservatives to be sure and those guys scare me... but when I look at the conservative mindset and the liberal mindset of those who are "the norm", I am often disueded by the conservative viewpoint.

If it wasn't for my liberal upbringing, I would have never discovered foriegn films... and through my appretiation of cultures different from my own, I would eventually discover anime... (back then anime wasn't nearly as available as it is today)

Now, I know that's one tiny example, but I'm going to stop there on that subject.


I did want to make one comment to Cyanna...

When people say "Bush is not my president", this is more due to the fact that many (myself included) believe that there was foul play in the counting of votes for the Bush/Gore election and that Bush stole the election.

I agree with your point. If Bush had simply won without any air of controversy, then yes... Bush would be the president because it was the choice of the majority.

I wasn't happy with Reagan or the other Bush, but I never felt that these men were "NOT my president." I do, however, feel that this current Bush fits the line. Ignoring the whole Florida thing, more Americans did vote for Gore than Bush.

Anyway...I'm not here to debate... just offering some thoughts based on what I read.

-Uncle Milo

*nods*

I have read your AMV journal before and out of all posts, I was expecting your inevitable one to be the one that would sting me the most. As much as I didn't want to see your reply, I just sucked it up and read it anyway.

But somehow, I just came off as if we simply "agreed to disagree."

Even though we don't see eye to eye on a lot...you kinda made my day as far as this thread was concerned. I feel somewhat...relieved. Lol! I can never have a negative reaction to a calm, rational arguement even when I don't agree with it...but you made your point. I can definatly see where you are coming from.

[Alucard_FoN]

However at the time of the polls a third party candidate doesn't seem very likely to get elected. May as well vote for the most popular supporter of your cause...and Bush was the most popular supporter of my cause at the time and you obviously hate that thought.

That kind of thinking right there is the reason we keep getting worse and worse presidents. Everyone thinks "If I vote for a third party I'm throwing away my vote" so nobody votes for them. If everyone would just stop that bullshit and vote for the person that they want to win we wouldn't be having this problem right now.

And how was any voter supposed to forsee 9-11 happening (which happened almost a year after the election), from which stemmed the two reasons from your list other then the obvious fact that you consider him an idiot?

Obviously noone could forsee it, but the fact remains that president Bush has said in an interview, and I quote, "There should be a limit to people's freedom." He said this, not in response to terrorrist acts, but in response to someone criticizing him on the internet. In short, he's saying there should be a limit to free speech, one of the unalienable rights gauranteed to people living in this country. This is not the kind of man I want running the country that I live in.

Also I would point out that the 9-11 attacks have nothing to do with the two reasons on my list that weren't "He's an idiot." The limit to freedom thing, as I pointed out above, was because of someone criticizing him on the internet. The warmongering thing, DESPITE what Bush claims about Saddam Hussein having links to the terrorrists, he hasn't been able to prove it at all. The war on Iraq has nothing at all to do with the 9-11 attacks.

[kthulhu]

As someone with rather libertarian ideals, I don't like Republicans or Democrats. Both are more concerned with pushing their own agendas and staying in power with the occasional pork handout to keep the voters, lobbyists, and donaters happy, instead of working to make the country a better place. From regulating free speech to abortion (which I personally do not agree with, but feel that the federal government does not have the authority to legislate it) to firearms, it's all about agenda and ideology, instead of common sense, logic, and even just having a hard skin.

Maybe I should move to Switzerland or Japan or somewhere....

[EarthCurrent]

As someone with rather libertarian ideals...

damn libertine idealists....

[kthulhu]

That kind of thinking right there is the reason we keep getting worse and worse presidents. Everyone thinks "If I vote for a third party I'm throwing away my vote" so nobody votes for them. If everyone would just stop that bullshit and vote for the person that they want to win we wouldn't be having this problem right now.

That's exactly the problem with this country. Few people are willing to vote out of party lines. During state elections here in Oregon, I voted Democrat for governor (the Republican was too Bush like, and the Libertarian was a bit too much to the right), Libertarian for senator, and then voted for whoever I thought had the best platform for the minor offices.

After the election, in which the Democratic gubernatorial candidate won, someone wrote in to an editorial page claiming that everyone who voted for the Libertarian candidate helped contribute to the loss of the Republican candidate - basically, voting for who you wanted was a BAD thing. I was glad when someone wrote a reply that stated , if they felt the Libertarian candidate was right for the job, they have every right to vote for him.

Obviously noone could forsee it, but the fact remains that president Bush has said in an interview, and I quote, "There should be a limit to people's freedom." He said this, not in response to terrorrist acts, but in response to someone criticizing him on the internet. In short, he's saying there should be a limit to free speech, one of the unalienable rights gauranteed to people living in this country. This is not the kind of man I want running the country that I live in.

Agreed. Probably the only good that'll come out of this administration is the likely sunsetting of Clinton's 1994 Crime Bill, which is pointless.

Also I would point out that the 9-11 attacks have nothing to do with the two reasons on my list that weren't "He's an idiot." The limit to freedom thing, as I pointed out above, was because of someone criticizing him on the internet. The warmongering thing, DESPITE what Bush claims about Saddam Hussein having links to the terrorrists, he hasn't been able to prove it at all. The war on Iraq has nothing at all to do with the 9-11 attacks.

Yep. There was no reason to go in to Iraq. We did it for weapons of mass destruction, we did it for humanitarian reasons, we did it for oil - does the administration have one CONSISTENT reason why we did this? And now, besides awarding fat rebuilding contracts, we also want to mostly disarm the Iraqi populace, ostensibly because Saddam supporters might launch attacks. Bullshit. We want to make sure we have a firm grip on the country. And last time I checked, we'll do house to house searches if needed.

Anyone but Bush in 2004!

[kthulhu]

As someone with rather libertarian ideals...

damn libertine idealists....

Quiet, you "NRA supporting dumbfuck from Wyoming" 8) .

[UncleMilo]

I have read your AMV journal before and out of all posts, I was expecting your inevitable one to be the one that would sting me the most. As much as I didn't want to see your reply, I just sucked it up and read it anyway.

But somehow, I just came off as if we simply "agreed to disagree."

Even though we don't see eye to eye on a lot...you kinda made my day as far as this thread was concerned. I feel somewhat...relieved. Lol! I can never have a negative reaction to a calm, rational arguement even when I don't agree with it...but you made your point. I can definatly see where you are coming from.

I'm glad I made your day!

We probably do disagree on some things. I will be quite vocal about my dislike of George W. Bush and the face of the current Republican party and I will most certainly exaplain and justify my views and reasons.

I am also emotional, which is why I'm not the best person to debate the issues. There are some people on this board who write some amazingly unpleasant posts (especially those posts where the poster claims how most people of a race or sexual orientation should be exterminated) and when I read stuff like that, I am much more ferocious in my writing and then some people think I'm always like that.

You stated your views in a straightforward and defended manner and I tried to offer my views on one part of what you posted.

Anyway... I was glad to read your reaction and thought I would just add this extra bit.

Back to work for me...

-Uncle Milo

[EarthCurrent]

As someone with rather libertarian ideals...

damn libertine idealists....

Quiet, you "NRA supporting dumbfuck from Wyoming" 8) .

That should only read "dumbfuck from Wyoming." I don't support the NRA in its current form.