I just have to know...

[Warlike Swans]

Well, I've gotten quite a bit entertainment out of the responses here.

Seriously though Leader Desslock, I hope you do value critiques as much as you claim to because your writing could use work. You are long winded, unfamiliar with your audience, and I can only express joy that you are not in the social sciences since you seem so eager to generalize from a narrow sample.

Are you as bad at giving critiques of fanfics as you are at AMVs? Maybe the reason AMV creators on AN respond worse to critiques is that you are worse at giving them.

[Qyot27]

What Bashar said. To a tee.


Also, while the Org has generally been viewed as the community hub for almost ten years, I remember my fair share of editors that would post in Announcements or Opinion Exchange and weren't at all prepared to get their stuff picked apart: they too were simply looking for praise, but they didn't get it. Those sorts of editors eventually realized that hosatchel...er, YouTube, was the place to get said praise and most of those sorts jumped over there, where such unwanted criticism could be avoided or easily ignored/deleted.

Now that YouTube is as ubiquitous as it is, it clouds the debate. Whether by totally obscuring the Org and making it into some elusive monastery site where one receives AMV editing enlightenment or being viewed as filled to the brim with elitist assholes (to be honest, I can only think of one or two posters I'm aware of that fit that description but that certainly doesn't stop the rumors), this place isn't the hub it once was. The general audience has since moved to YouTube. One only needs to look at the monthly rate of new catalog entries or uploads to realize that, comparing it to the site's usage peak 5 or 6 years ago.

The less serious editors starting on YouTube and then essentially 'graduating' to the Org or those that honestly want improvement gravitating here directly has shifted our demographics in regard to users who can handle critique well. At least those of us who remember the pre-YouTube days (or the short period where both were of fairly equal exposure) can recall seeing the same thinskinned-ness described in the OP. It's largely something seen in those who really don't want to get better at whatever it is they're doing - this occurs in all hobbies or fandom. Users that do have that drive very well could have had a period where they couldn't take criticism well, but if they really do wish to improve, they learn to get over themselves and grow a thicker skin in regard to learning their mistakes. As was mentioned, the seeming lack of harsh crit in the Announcements forum now is largely due to a lot of the editors that post on these forums having gotten those licks already and understanding that it comes with the territory.

On other fansites, this process isn't always so obvious, if it's there at all.

[EvaFan]

The answer is clearly 42, if for some reason you still dont understand... That is a lack of understanding on your part.

[Shin-AMV]

Thats a rather tame response to criticism. I was expecting something more dramatic, especially with that much typed out. Anyways, reread Bashar's and Prodigi's posts to cover my general viewpoints on this whole thing or fall_child42's for the tldr version.

[Radical_Yue]

That sure is a whole lot of words to ask

"Why do some people take criticism poorly?"

x2


That being said...Here is my point of view...

a) compels them to post their work publicly, b) compels them to ask for critical feedback, then c) causes them to freak the hell out when you find the tiniest fault with it?!

a) Well, it's a hobby. You make something you enjoy, the same with fanart, fanfiction, etc... and it makes you happy to share with friends. Sure, some people only get back into editing when contests come up but that pattern tends to be recognized rather easily and looked down upon for the most part. (Bad contest whores! BAD! >:|)
Do we have to share them? No. Can you give me a solid reason WHY we shouldn't share them? Good luck.
Due to a poor internet connection I wasn't able to upload first AMVs till well over a year after they were completed....and even though they were flaming piles of poo, it made me sad. Not because I was "missin mah chance at teh AMVz fame" but because I wasn't able to share something I loved doing and that made me feel happy with my friends. Being able to share them with the whole world was just an extra perk :p
When you've got something that makes you happy, it's kind of hard to not want to share it xD

b) Once more, it is indeed a hobby...but a large majority of the editors still want to get better at what they do. I'd have to say that the same rings true for just about any fan hobby. If you want to make something to express your feelings about a certain subject then you want to do it well. As for "critical" feedback, I'm not sure what the users on your forum are like but...it's actually very rare for me to come across someone LOOKING for critical feedback beyond friends coming to me in private. This brings up...

c) Oooooh, critical feedback I love it so
While as others have said, the response you'll get from your feedback will vary from person to person there is kind of a general answer for why people freak out.
Youtube. Hate to say it, but you can get famous there for anime gifs, hue cycling and club music. This leads people to think they're better than they actually are so when they DO receive negative feedback...they tend to flip out a bit. Even this site, which was known for it's "big meanie elitist editors" previously has softened into a big doughy disgusting marshmallow where video announcement threads may as well just have a "like" button so you can click it, make the editor happy and be on your way.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I adooore giving critical feedback, whether people want it or not xD When I get a good response to my feedback such as "While I may disagree with x and y, I understand your point of view. Thanks for taking the time to critique my video." I walk away happy to see there are still people out there who honestly care about their work, wanting to get better and NOT just in it for the praise. Not because "zomg I totally know what I'm taking about and u shuld listen to me" but because they know that with the good, comes the bad and they're willing to accept that and build upon it.
When someone responds by, as you've said...basically flipping their shit, or hell...reporting me (I've had it happen) theeeen, I lose a bit of respect for them. Everyone has the right to their own opinion and by posting your work in a public forum, you're basically welcoming all those opinions in with open arms. If you don't like what someone has to say, get over it because you're going to get it whether you like it or not.
But with the editors who aren't so into receiving feedback, I just kind of forget about them =p I'm not into trolling and without any kind of negative feedback to help them build in conjunction with the good feedback, they're probably not going to get much better or make anything revolutionary that will make me think different about them.

And then

Sorry about the grammar/spelling. It's not easy to blow dry your hair with one hand and type with the other D:

[l33tmeatwad]

I've been known to troll now and again...

I think there's a problem, if you are known to troll people, they won't be able to take your "advice" seriously, because they won't be able to tell it's worth anything until someone who doesn't troll a lot basically repeats what you said. There are a lot of people that can't take critical feedback (or don't want it), but those that are after it generally like to get feedback from someone that seems trustworthy, not someone who is known for trolling.

[Skylark2]

I originally had posted my response on Animenation a while ago. I hope it's alright to share a copy of my response here.

Err . . . filtering back to Leader Desslock's questions:

I find the answer to understanding the negative and positive feedback freak-outs is to (hopefully) empathize with others because of my own experiences posting over the years, or from observing the experiences of others involved in give-and-take. I assume the creator gene is in all of us and so these questions can be generally directed at any musician, painter, baker, director, actor, writer, manga artist or, of course, the AMV creator. I find it natural and human, particularly when a person goes public with their ideas or creations for the first time, that there may be frustration when certain things don't fly with the reviewer or critics over the work put in display.

But that doesn't mean creators with years of experience and backbone may not freak-out once and a while in later years: some years ago, in a radio program I was listening to, I remember Frank Miller getting nasty at an innocent but honest reviewer that didn't like his version of Catwomen in the Batman Year One comic book.

Also, in another example, I recall the story given by a craftsman/teacher I knew -- an experienced character designer and animator I met -- that mentioned that he became visibly angry in front of a prospective client over the lack of a positive response to his pitch for a animated short. I take it that sometimes rejection can still be hard to take in any business or endeavor even if you are a production veteran. (But because of that experience, however, he went on to set up a successful animation school and had his students make the film with his own budget.)

What the **** is it with so many (in my person experience) AMV creators that: a) compels them to post their work publicly

Feeding the ego may not be the only lure, it also may be to share their experiences and the feelings evoked by their creation as something special, just like people post on AN to share their experiences and appreciation for great storytelling or great anime. At anime conventions I try to see fan art that are displayed – I try to see the emotion and passion in the work that the fan artists are able to convey (most times it doesn't matter to me what level of experience the artist may be nestled at).

Let me add too that some posters are not only looking for positive feedback, but they are probably also looking for positive or negative critiques that are useful feedback.

Along with other motivational factors, I sometimes post my own work to test audience response to my own ideas. In some cases, and if a person is really lucky, a person might post their creation online and find a career. See here.

b) compels them to ask for critical feedback

My guess is because it helps to have any feedback. By requesting it you may get someone to participate, whether the work may bring a negative response or a positive one.

c) causes them to freak the hell out when you find the tiniest fault with it?!

Because, damn it, it may still hurt anyway -- whether you're a experienced Frank Miller or an AMV creator like Mr. Sidney H. Flopgoblin.

I've had times defended my work from certain critiques and then later had second thoughts – often times I had come around the critic's perspective and made changes. An example of that is my student animated film titled Dead Banana. The instructor recommended that I flip a couple of scenes into a different order. Initially, after getting most of the work where I wanted it, my knee-jerk response was to defend what I had done so far and object to any changes. Weeks later I could see and understood the instructor's perspective and thought the instructor was right. I changed the scene. But that too is another thing, and a word of warning: in some cases the reviewer or critic better know their stuff or there will be skepticism. That instructor knew his stuff.

What is it about the AMV community that makes them proportionately less able to accept feedback, but still compelled to seek it?

See the last two lines above . . . that and the AMV community still sounds like lots of fun anyhow. Besides, who wants to really keep any of their films in the closet anyway.

[irriadin]

That sure is a whole lot of words to ask

"Why do some people take criticism poorly?"

x3

However, I will say that certain communities react to criticism differently. Every time I've made a critical comment on YouTube, people in the comments will do their best to make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about. The video creator is usually receptive of what I have to say, but I've basically concluded that YouTube isn't the proper forum for real analysis and critique.

So I'll reiterate what others have said. 1. One individual isn't representative of the whole community. 2. Each community has its own accepted norms; YouTube comments are generally extremely polarizing ("I LOVE IT" vs "OMG THIS SHIT SUX"), so balanced criticism can be so far out of what's expected that a lot of people just don't know how to deal with it.

[Leader Desslock]

Wow. Didn't think this would actually get posted.

A couple of the replies are along the lines of what I'm looking for,and I'll reply later when I get a chance. Thanks for everyone's responses so far, though!

[BasharOfTheAges]

Wow. Didn't think this would actually get posted.

PHPBB has a last line of defense spam filter for sites that don't have the luxury of blanket banning regions of the globe where most spam bots operate (china, russia, etc). What it does is quarantines all posts by new users until mods actively verify you are not a spam bot. People were just busy this holiday weekend.