Stolen AMV

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
Locked
User avatar
JaddziaDax
Crazy Cat Lady!
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:25 am
Status: I live?
Location: Somewhere I think O.o
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by JaddziaDax » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:22 pm

amv creators are looking for "fanfare"?

you mean theres perks aside from 12yearolds asskissing on msn?
oh
wait
thats the fanfare youre talking about

>.<

nevermind can i give my fanfare back?
~~~~~~~~~~~~

in truth i find fanfare of a ripoff product highly ammusing...
especially on yo<a></a>utube :P

ps. please take my post with light heart.. internets lolz

User avatar
nmaster64
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:39 pm
Location: US
Org Profile

Post by nmaster64 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:36 pm

:shock:

fanfare...I guess that's what you'd call it...the only real thing I think you gain from making an AMV...

...

...yeah...can't think of anything else. Just a way to say, hey, "look at my l33t skillz". Or I guess to "express yourself"... :P

User avatar
JaddziaDax
Crazy Cat Lady!
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:25 am
Status: I live?
Location: Somewhere I think O.o
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by JaddziaDax » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:40 pm

oh wait youre talking about when they ask you for requests right?

User avatar
nmaster64
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:39 pm
Location: US
Org Profile

Post by nmaster64 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:41 pm

:shock: I have no idea what either of us are talking about anymore... :shock:

User avatar
JaddziaDax
Crazy Cat Lady!
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:25 am
Status: I live?
Location: Somewhere I think O.o
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by JaddziaDax » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:43 pm

fanfare man, fanfare for making amvs...

like "attention" or "all the glory" or (in the case of most of my vids) the "who the fuck is this bitch?" looks i may recieve for talking about "my video" at conventions O.o

fanfare man fanfaire

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you know what one of the biggest fanfares is?
someone ripping off your video :P

User avatar
nmaster64
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:39 pm
Location: US
Org Profile

Post by nmaster64 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:18 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:oh wait youre talking about when they ask you for requests right?
^ I meant in regards to that.

Are you referring to someone becoming so popular people actually request them to make a certain AMV?

trythil
is
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:54 am
Status: N͋̀͒̆ͣ͋ͤ̍ͮ͌ͭ̔̊͒ͧ̿
Location: N????????????????
Org Profile

Post by trythil » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:14 pm

nmaster64 wrote: Let's look at this:
1) A multimillion dollar company releases a product, while viewable for free, alongside highly overpriced merchandising.
2) A fan creates a piece of art, not claiming the source to be his own, but simply as a compliment to it, for free for all to enjoy. What most don't realize is these fanworks serve as great ads to the show, and create more fans, selling more merchandise.
This is the first of my justifications. which has to do with law.

The fanwork is, in almost all cases, illegal. A cursory glance at copyright law will tell you this. If your work is illegal, and someone else just comes up and steals it, well, I don't think you have much of a case for ownership. Sure, you might own the edits and some garnish. You own zilch compared to the original source.
So guess what? Newflash! The only person who suffers here is the original fanwork creator who slaved for hours over a fanwork all for nothing.
This is a good start for my second justification, which is effort.

If you think fanwanking is difficult, the effort differential between fanwanking and original creation is about as large as fanwanking and someone ripping off that wankery.

Seriously, try it sometime. I have, and it's one reason why I view AMVs this way. Your mileage may vary.
There's no "ripping off" involved in AMV creation, because nobody claims they actually made the anime or music that they're using. Credit is given where credit is due.
This is where things become less objective. The third justification I have comes from morals.

I view attribution as only right if the creation is, for the most part, original. If you have secured the rights to transform or reuse someone else's work, then I think attribution is only right if you substantially build upon that.

Therefore, I'll slap my name (and my copyright, which is often expressed as this or this) on large programs I write, or complex 3D animations that I create from scratch. Perhaps small portions of those scenes may have come from appropriately-licensed or public domain libraries of models or textures, or (in the case of programs) appropriately-licensed or public-domain code.

Those things take significant mental effort to create, and as I am legally entitled to attribution and copyright, I'll take it. So you could say that it's a threshold defined by effort and law.

The common retort to all this involves relativity. Well, yes, this is obviously all relative. What I think is a complex 3D animation would probably be peanuts to Pixar or PDI. What I believe to be a programming masterpiece might be trivial to Donald Knuth. But that's been what I've written all along: I find it highly amusing when people try to give AMVs such protection. I think it's a dumb idea. You clearly do not, and that is why I do not attempt to make it some absolute measure. (That doesn't stop me from publicly saying that I think it's a dumb idea, though.)

Anyway, for me, AMVs -- and other minor works -- simply do not pass that threshold; I don't care what level of complexity you take them to. Obviously, they fail the legal requirement; and, as I wrote above, much of the work is already done for you. Even if you spend months slaving over five seconds of an effect, or months plotting out some elaborate storyline, it's nothing compared to the training and labor required to create that same thing from scratch. I don't think it matters whether or not you claim that you created the anime or music; the video is still trivial enough that claiming ownership over the edits (e.g. requiring proper attribution) is wrong.


So, to summarize:

I think enforced attribution for AMV editors is wrong, and I think that combined with the blatant illegality of AMVs makes it really, really funny when AMV creators seek punishment for people who claim some AMV as their own.

I guess it goes without saying that I don't care if someone takes one or all of my fanvids and claims it as their own.

User avatar
nmaster64
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:39 pm
Location: US
Org Profile

Post by nmaster64 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:05 pm

That is by far the most f'd up opinion I've ever heard. It's simply ridiculous, in every sense.

First off, your "law" is not as sound as you think it is. Most anime doesn't fall under US Copyright and therefore practically unenforcable. And regardless of how the law stands, it hardly means it represents what is just and fair, despite that being it's original intent. Current copyright law is on it's way to destroying this country, it's practically Draconian as it currently exists.

More importantly, you just don't get what a fanwork is. There's no claim to the source, nobody going "this piece of art is 100% my own". It's a matter of complimenting somebody's work, NOT STEALING IT. We are essentially marketing for the original creators.

There's also this little thing called "fair use", which believe it or not many if not most fanworks fall under. AMVs are one of the few that usually don't, but still, it's very important to note it's existence, as you seemingly don't. You act as if we are reproducing the source in it's entirety, while in truth the majority of AMVs represent less than 1% of the total material.

Effort is important, because it's through effort that people define their own achievements in life. For one to claim another's effort is wrong in every possible way, morally, religiously, and often legally. It's both lying and stealing. An AMV creator puts forth effort, and has the right to take claim on that effort. His work is certainly only achievable through the effort of others, namely those that created the anime, but he does not take claim on THEIR effort, only his own.

Morals are definitly another big point. You have to understand, nobody is claiming their legal right to sue because someone took their AMV. Nobody is saying they have the right to distribute their anime however they see fit and sell it and this or that...we just want people to enjoy it and simply acknowledge the fact that WE put forth the mental effort and time investment needed to put together that particular piece of art. Nothing more is asked. And we DO have the right as a community to expel those who do not operate under this moral principle and claim others work as their own. We have our own ways of dealing with the issue within the community.

The important thing to acknowledge is that AMV creators are not looking for the protection that major works have. Major works need some form of protection because their work is a form of revenue. What does an AMV creator gain through it's creation? Hmm? The answer is nothing. Credit and fanfare are the only true motivation (other than possibly personal expression). Thus, if people can simply claim the credit for another's work, than the motivation disappears, and AMVs with it. It's necessary to protect the original creator to maintain the community.

My understanding of the current situation on which this thread is based is simply this: One person is taking credit for another's work. It is my belief that if that person does not willingly remove the offending material, he/she should be ousted from the community. That is the form of protection AMV creators want, and you have no right to challenge that.

User avatar
Kalium
Sir Bugsalot
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:17 pm
Location: Plymouth, Michigan
Org Profile

Post by Kalium » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:13 pm

This is not the time, place, or venue to begin rehashing rather old and tired arguments about copyright law. As this thread appears to have outlived any productive discussion, I'm locking it.

Locked

Return to “General AMV”