Let's talk advanced encoding, and bitrates :)

[Zero1]

Well, by starting this thread I hope to share some know how and also learn something from the veterans here. The Read <a href=http://www.a-m-v.org/guides/avtech31/>ErMaC & AbsoluteDestiny's Friendly AMV Guides</a> was awesome, I love educational, yet practical stuff like that.

So to kick off, What is your codec & container of choice and why?

I used to be a fan of DivX 4.12 a while back, and upgraded to 5.05 for compatibilities sake. I've also tried 5.11, but 5.05 is my current DivX preference.
After numerous cross codec tests and multiple configs, I concluded XviD 1.00 RC4 was the best for me. I've tried the final release, but with the same settings I used as before, the quality didn't quite match the previous version.
Good old AVI is the container I am using currently, and I despise the likes of OGG and MKV, although switchable subtitles are a nice idea, and multiple audio streams bring an up to date container, similar to DVDs and DVB, but it needs to be standardised by a big faceless corp

Bitrates
Would someone clarify the ISO standard bitrates for VCD and SVCD please? I thought VCD was 1150kbs CBR Video & 224kbs CBR Audio, and I also read SVCD was around 2376kbs (CBR?) Video, but I think the Audio rate was lower.

What rates do you use?
For my AMVs, I've been using 1900kbs Video and 160 kbs Audio for a while (both VBR, which apparently isn't fully supported by AVI). As for TV dumps and such, I'm still undecided what is a good Size/Duration to have.

A few options would be:
100 mins per 700MB CD ~ 872kbs video, 96kbs audio
80 mins per 700MB CD ~ 1096kbs video, 112kbs audio
72 mins per 700MB CD ~ 1216kbs video, 128kbs audio (I think this is similar to what subgroups distro in)
60 mins per 700MB CD ~ 1488kbs video, 128kbs audio
45 mins per 700MB CD ~ 1900kbs video, 160kbs audio

Well I got those figures from the XviD calculator, so all file overheads, and overheads for VBR MP3 etc have been accounted for.

So what one would you use for encoding general rips and TV dumps?

So how about some nice techy response or linage peoples? Would be goodness.

Well if nothing, at least you've got some good to go bitrates to play with.
Let me know how accurate they are, I would give it a go but work takes up so much damn time.

[Tab.]

Depends on what I'm aiming for. The best possible combination on the face of the earth right now is MKV(RV10 + HE-AAC), IMO. However, support is not widespread for that combination at all.

You're right about VCD. SVCD can have any audio and video rate so long as the total stream is under something around 2756 kbps. VBR, at that.
For the combo mentioned before 1 mbps video and 96 kbps audio is above sufficient in most scenarios.

If I were aiming for conformity, I'd use XviD off the 1.1 tree and mp3 audio, naturally in avi. Would be sad to sell out as such, though. You might see me placing xvid encodes with lc-aac in the mp4 container, because compliance is FUN. Hopefully though, some day, I'd be putting h.264 and he-aac in that same container, still without losing spec compliance.
VP6 can be nice when I absolutely must use VFW, and I'd use it over XviD in the event of an important job.
MKV and MP4 are fun containers to work with. I'll use RM and AVI but only when I must. Similarly, RV10, VP6, and H.264 are fun codecs, however, XviD is vital. The rest all pretty much suck. HE-AAC is great, although the old Real cook codecs were pretty damn good as well. Vorbis is boring but I still use it occasionally. MP3 is, like XviD, essential, but like AVI, old and boring.

I don't get your comment about RC4 and 1.0. There were no changes to core that could possibly have reduced the quality.

[Wheee_It's_Me!]

Depends on what I'm aiming for. The best possible combination on the face of the earth right now is MKV(RV10 + HE-AAC), IMO. However, support is not widespread for that combination at all.

Best combo for what intended purpose?

You're right about VCD. SVCD can have any audio and video rate so long as the total stream is under something around 2756 kbps. VBR, at that.
For the combo mentioned before 1 mbps video and 96 kbps audio is above sufficient in most scenarios.

Some set top players have troubles with variable bit rates though, especially random freezing problems. And I wouldn't go over 2500 kbps either on the bit rate, again, for the sake of better compatibility...which is sort of the point with encoding in SVCD, so people can burn and play on a set top.

If I were aiming for conformity, I'd use XviD off the 1.1 tree and mp3 audio, naturally in avi. Would be sad to sell out as such, though. You might see me placing xvid encodes with lc-aac in the mp4 container, because compliance is FUN. Hopefully though, some day, I'd be putting h.264 and he-aac in that same container, still without losing spec compliance.
VP6 can be nice when I absolutely must use VFW, and I'd use it over XviD in the event of an important job.
MKV and MP4 are fun containers to work with. I'll use RM and AVI but only when I must. Similarly, RV10, VP6, and H.264 are fun codecs, however, XviD is vital. The rest all pretty much suck. HE-AAC is great, although the old Real cook codecs were pretty damn good as well. Vorbis is boring but I still use it occasionally. MP3 is, like XviD, essential, but like AVI, old and boring.

Personally I prefer the OGM container, in conjunction with Xvid and ogg sound. OGM has much better widespread use than MKV, making it superior in that you'll reach a greater audience (you'd be surprised at the number of people who will just get frustrated and say, "FUCK IT!" when they encounter some new format or the video won't play right).

This however is for anime only, in which you have a use for multiple streams (ie subtitles, dual audio, etc). Otherwise AVI is still king of the mountain as far as container formats (at least in regards to portability).

For my AMVs I like to distribute in SVCD format, so people can play them on their set tops, however in the future I'll likely release two seperate versions, one as an SVCD and one as an AVI using Xvid.



I don't get your comment about RC4 and 1.0. There were no changes to core that could possibly have reduced the quality.[/quote]

[Tab.]

Best combo for what intended purpose?

OH GOD, not the excessive quoting.

For quality. If I'm making the video for myself or someone competent it's first choice.

Some set top players have troubles with variable bit rates though, especially random freezing problems. And I wouldn't go over 2500 kbps either on the bit rate, again, for the sake of better compatibility...which is sort of the point with encoding in SVCD, so people can burn and play on a set top.

Sorry, but 2500 and 2756 are the same in the set top world. 2x is 2x, and that's what SVCD requires.

For my AMVs I like to distribute in SVCD format, so people can play them on their set tops, however in the future I'll likely release two seperate versions, one as an SVCD and one as an AVI using Xvid.

Oh, that means you've stopped using msmpeg4v2? And Mpeg 1 (remember kids, just as good as mpeg 4 above 700 kbps™)? And DivX 5.02?
What about .itys? Really, I'd think XviD is far too Doom9 for your tastes.

[Wheee_It's_Me!]

Best combo for what intended purpose?

OH GOD, not the excessive quoting.

For quality. If I'm making the video for myself or someone competent it's first choice.

Some set top players have troubles with variable bit rates though, especially random freezing problems. And I wouldn't go over 2500 kbps either on the bit rate, again, for the sake of better compatibility...which is sort of the point with encoding in SVCD, so people can burn and play on a set top.

Sorry, but 2500 and 2756 are the same in the set top world. 2x is 2x, and that's what SVCD requires.

For my AMVs I like to distribute in SVCD format, so people can play them on their set tops, however in the future I'll likely release two seperate versions, one as an SVCD and one as an AVI using Xvid.

Oh, that means you've stopped using msmpeg4v2? And Mpeg 1 (remember kids, just as good as mpeg 4 above 700 kbps™)? And DivX 5.02?
What about .itys? Really, I'd think XviD is far too Doom9 for your tastes.

Wow, you're not hostile or anything, are ya Tab?

You'll have to forgive Tab everyone, video encoding is like some sort of freakish religion for him, it's best to just nod along when he starts screaming about how we're all going to hell and so forth. o_O

[NME]

I didn't find that hostile at all.
Get beat down enough times and you're eventually scared of everyone I guess.

Xvid CBR 2500

MPEG1 CBR 2500


IN THE BATTLE OF CODECS THERE IS NO WINNER.
EXCEPT XVID.

[Wheee_It's_Me!]

I didn't find that hostile at all.

Wow, a reply from NME in which he's not screaming and raving on like a lunatic, I'm impressed. I suppose that time when you went crazy and all ballistic on that one anime con organizer, that wasn't being hostile either, huh? ^_^

Get beat down enough times and you're eventually scared of everyone I guess.

Or in your case you go psychotic and randomly try and attack anyone within 5 posts of you.

Xvid CBR 2500
-snip-
MPEG1 CBR 2500
-snip-

IN THE BATTLE OF CODECS THERE IS NO WINNER.
EXCEPT XVID.

What was your source with those two captures? You do know that the quality of MPEG-1 encoding is highly dependant upon the quality of the soruce footage. Xvid is quite good about taking crap and maintaing the same level of quality, when you encode crap with MPEG-1 though yer gonna wind up with even shittier looking crap. If you took the digital master and encoded both of them using MPEG-1 and Xvid, they would look quite similar. Using newer forms of Xvid (anything within the past 2 years or so) the quality of the Xvid encode will be slightly higher, although the difference will be negligable to most. Again though, it's highly dependant on source, which is why encoding in Xvid is superior, because it does a good job of maintaining the same level of shit quality when reencoding.

[NME]

That was from the Region 1 DVD.
Good to see that you've finally learned what we all knew back this time last year.

[Wheee_It's_Me!]

That was from the Region 1 DVD.

So basically the source was shit, gotcha. I've found that most anime DVD distributors do an extremely poor job of encoding, at least in comparison to most American animated DVD releases. Like the CCS Movie 2, Special Edition release, OMG was the quality just crap.

Good to see that you've finally learned what we all knew back this time last year.

You know what's interesting NME, the fact that your last video was encoded with MPEG-1, free cl00, VCDs...yeah I'm sure those are big if you're living in communist China and only have access to like 7 year old DVD players, but most of us have SVCD capable players these days.

Furthermore, it's good to see that your two latest AMVs still don't have any opinions. Oh hey, free cl00, it's cause they suck! Like that Cowboy Bebop one, oh wow, NME masters the text overlay! *snicker*

And that one with Akira, what the hell was that, were even TRYING? It was like random, poorly encoded, boretastic footage mixed with an angst ridden scream fest of stupidity by some dead end garage band of high school drop outs with no hope of ever landing a record deal.

Don't let it get to ya though NME, just go on a screaming rant about how much you hate me, that one con organizer and everyone else who thinks you suck because...well, you do.

[AbsoluteDestiny]

Don't get personal, you two.