Proposal: Program that simplifies AMVs

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:02 pm

koronoru wrote:I have a very simple bit of wisdom for anyone who proposes the creation of new software: code first, then propose.

Finally, a perspective from a real coder

Ashyukun · Post by **Ashyukun** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:12 am

trythil wrote:
FurryCurry wrote:
I tried sooo hard not to read this thread...
But you didn't get very far.

That's ok, though, because in the end, it doesn't really matter.

*twitch* OK, that was just bad...

Ashyukun · Post by **Ashyukun** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:23 am

koronoru wrote:I have a very simple bit of wisdom for anyone who proposes the creation of new software: code first, then propose.

While this is a good idea in principle, the truth of the matter is that the majority of the people who use most software (including A/V editing stuff) simply can't code that well, and it isn't always the programmer who comes up with what might be the next killer application- if the programmer doesn't really work in the field, they may well not know what is really needed.

However, I would definitely agree that this really isn't needed. It sounds a lot to me like it's just one step away from modifying Muvee AutoProducer so you pop in an audio CD and a DVD (or, let's be realistic for a number of people- give it a DL'd MP3) and it will make a music video for you.

In that spirit, I actually have working code for the visual indexing system I proposed here a few months ago. It ain't pretty nor easy to use yet, but unlike some other brilliant new ideas we've seen recently, it's for real. I can put in a DVD and get out a tree of HTML documents showing thumbnails of all the shots and time coordinates for where to find them. If anyone wants to see, I'll stash a sample of the output in my Web space.

You mean it runs through the video with a scene-change detect and then outputs where all the cuts are in the show? Could be interesting....

post-it · Post by **post-it** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:44 am

trythil wrote:
koronoru wrote:I have a very simple bit of wisdom for anyone who proposes the creation of new software: code first, then propose.
Finally, a perspective from a real coder

however, its with thinking like that which makes Software soo unusable to everyone else!

- Hey, I've got Code ^^
- I've Got an Idea ^_^
- - lets slap it together; it should work 0_0
- - - Great; we can sell this ó_ò
- - - - but how do we use it? . . who cares; they'll buy it! òó Grrrr!
- - - - - and the name of our Company ????

I've had code written sence 1979 that needed somewhere to go too; but I'm not selfish enough to sell it to someone who doesn't understand the possibilities for what it can do!

It seems that people today understand the principles of programming but
are not that actual paying attention to the ease of use of the consumer.
Steve Jobs had a good idea; but his programmers `just didn't get it!
MicroSoft understands what needs to be done; but they `just don't get it!
Adobe broke its ties to Apple, but still `just doesn't get it either!
Virtual Dub has the right idea and refuse's to cave-in on what we truly need.

Everything today is finally Linear - when it comes to Video; but they still don't
understand that most people do not think in Linear "Video Tape type" sequences!

In order to edit Video,
1) the scenes/footage should be on a multi-level carrousel for us to cut and paste from.
2) everything should be Rendering as we build them. ( to check it )
3) everything that is Cut and Pasted should also be able to expand from its current cut-off points ( to fill in gap's )
and finally,
4) it should be able to encode Exactly what we are seeing to ANY CODEC.

? have you seen this editor anywhere in the world yet ????

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:55 am

post-it wrote: It seems that people today understand the principles of programming but
are not that actual paying attention to the ease of use of the consumer.
Steve Jobs had a good idea; but his programmers `just didn't get it!

Right, that explains Apple's loyal followers.

post-it wrote: MicroSoft understands what needs to be done; but they `just don't get it!

Right, that explains their majority market share.

post-it wrote: Adobe broke its ties to Apple, but still `just doesn't get it either!

Right, that explains their position in the consumer and professional markets for digital image processing and video programs.

post-it wrote: Virtual Dub has the right idea and refuse's to cave-in on what we truly need.

Right, and that fits with the fact that Avery Lee decided to just code something up to do video capture and THEN refined it. Not to mention that HE doesn't have to "cave in" on what people need; that's why the source code is out there for others to tweak.

--

I'm not saying what koronoru says is correct, but where the heck are you going with this? You just proved him and you right at the same time.

post-it wrote: Everything today is finally Linear - when it comes to Video; but they still don't
understand that most people do not think in Linear "Video Tape type" sequences!

I hope you mean "non-linear". If anything, people are trying to make linear, dumb videotape act more like a random-access filesystem, because, well, that's just easier to work with. Best example I can think of right now: exploitation of continuous timecode by editing software. Pinnacle Studio, for example, has a SmartCapture feature that allows people to work with preview-quality clips (to save space) during the editing process, and then, at final rendering, build the final project directly from DV tape. It's like the AVISynth switch method, automated.

? have you seen this editor anywhere in the world yet ????

Cinelerra does (1), (2), and (3), and (4) is not hard to do with external tools

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:11 am

I'd just explain it away with drugs, trythil. I would also do the same for danielwang, although, in his case, the problem is a lack of them.

C'mon DW, isn't someone in your area slinging "dah rockz"?

danielwang · Post by **danielwang** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:10 pm

kthulhu wrote:I'd just explain it away with drugs, trythil. I would also do the same for danielwang, although, in his case, the problem is a lack of them.

C'mon DW, isn't someone in your area slinging "dah rockz"?

No.

With enough research and hacking, throwing together a script should be easy (hopefully most apps have commandline access and scripthooks). But if we should have learned anything from medieval bladesmiths, it's that good products result from client-oriented deliverables.

The concept is easy. Say, for example, I write a script that does this function with one button, and this function only:

It finds the DVD-rom drive. If there are multiple, the volume IDs are presented to the user. If not, no options are presented.

It asks for a location and/or options, or in unattended mode, we can have it rip the entire DVD to:
Windows XP: %USERPROFILE%\My Documents\%DVDVOLUMEID%
Windows .NET Gundam: ($HOME$) ~/docs/$DVDVOLUMEID$

It also makes a Huffy version.
If it's telecined, IVTC.
Anamorphic? Offer to use another cript to get rid of that.

One click. One hour. That's all it shoudl take to rip an entire DVD. It's just making it n00b friendly, right? They want to skip the director interviews, rip with sound, rip only a certain portion, etc? Use the ripper directly.

This design principle can be expanded into other projects as well. Possible mission statement: "Making it easier for n00bs to make even MORE LBZ videos!"

BogoSort · Post by **BogoSort** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:13 pm

danielwang wrote:With enough research and hacking, throwing together a script should be easy (hopefully most apps have commandline access and scripthooks).

Since this is so easy, then you should take it upon yourself to do this so that the n00bs that you're fighting for can make their videos. It shouldn't be any problem for someone of your brilliant insight, and the programmers around here probably wouldn't be able to do your idea the justice that it deserves. %

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:24 pm

danielwang wrote:It's just making it n00b friendly, right?

No, it's not. By not giving someone full control they don't learn how to use the programs that are actually doing all the work, so when they approach a problem they have no idea what to do and blame the "n00b-friendly" software.

It's the same argument that informs us that dumbing down the guides is a realy pointless excercise because it doesn't teach anyone how to do anything it just tells them - which is no use when they need to do something different.

OK, here's the scenario I see...

Say n00b puts in a kare kano dvd and (for whatever reason) wants to use scenes from the opening. Not a bad idea - there's some good footage there. Unfortunately your quick fix program has ripped the vobs in file mode and because the opening is multi-angle you get a japanese GOP followed by an english GOP which makes it impossible to use the footage from the opening.

So they go "damn, I need to find another way of doing this" so they look on the net and find a guide that says "use dvd decrypter". They open it in DVD decrpter and, lo and behold, it opens up the longest IFO... which is one epsode.

So now they get really really annoyed and go and make dumb posts in all caps with lots of exclamation marks and ones... They then get a) flamed b) told to use the n00b program c) told to use dvddecrypter d) told that they must be just doing it wrong and finally e) ignored.... at which point they just download the footage from kazaa... or use sonmeone elses music video.

Way to help your n00b there

Programs like this only really work for people who know what the program is doing but want to save time. By all means make it yourself, but if you think this will help "noobs" you are mistaken.

danielwang · Post by **danielwang** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:42 pm

Let's just Dilber the entire project and say we need more specification to make the product.

No, seriously: here's one line to rip the first segment f a DVD in the D: drive (Windows .NET Gunda: grep /etc/fstab, mount.exe, or mountvol.exe)

cd "%PROGRAMFILES%/DVD Decvrypter"
DVDDecrypter.exe /MODE IFO /SRC D: /VTS 1 /PGC 1 /OVERWRITE NO /START /CLOSE

or just File mode, select /mnt/hack_sign_v1/video_ts/vts_01.vob

Demux or direct stream? Nah, we'll launch a Huffy converter later...