um what does this mean? :\ (hitokiri battousai translation?)

FATTY_VM · Post by **FATTY_VM** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 6:19 am

ARG. STOP THE DISCUSSION. WE GET THE POINT.

superspike · Post by **superspike** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:22 am

no keep going

I like to read your views on this ^_^

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:12 am

outlawed wrote:I checked with my Japanese friend and translator on this. He's bilingual and has read a decent amount of the manga. Now as for the origins of the word and how old it is I don't know. But Rurou is a common word as far as I can tell. It is in my dictionary. Thing to keep in mind is the word to look up is Rurou (ni is just a particle). Interestingly enough when we were discussing this it jogged his memory and he told me that he seems to recall the mangaka commenting that the original title was just going to be Rurou ni.

No biggie. I knew what it meant after the show, but didn't know it was a common term. Perhaps it was someone else because I highly doubt my Japanese friend wouldn't know. I think in her house every time she speaks english she has to pay her parents a dollar or something...btw that's off-topic

.

Funny you should mention that. The mangaka of Kenshin publically stated (during his manga after Kenshin in Jump, Gun Blaze West I believe,) that he saw the English version of Kenshin and that they called it Samurai X. He said it was such a cool name he wishes he though of it so he could have named Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai X. Different Strokes for different folks. Unfortunately most Japanese have little grasp of the English language. Like some anime fans here, the exotic and what is different tends to fascinate.

Oh I wouldn't doubt that he thought it was cool. I guess it's not *only* the title that annoys me. It's this division from the TV series that bugs me. Two companies own separate parts and ADV makes it seem like it's this action anime that has nothing to do with anything except having htis badass that kills a bunch of people. I guess what I'm sick of is people only watching the OVA and thinking they *know* Kenshin and think he's just this badass instead of this atoning Samurai that is actually quite complex. The "Badass" part really only gets you so far in my book...

Well my personal feeling is that to appreciate Kenshin all they need to see is TV ep1 and then watch the OVA. This gets the point of what the good part of kenshin was. Of course now it's on TV and maybe some of those kids will see the OVA. But the symbolism in the OVA is probably going to be over their head knowing the demographic of Kenshin. But Kenshin is still good fun until the end of the Shishio stuff. Anybody who really knows about this stuff knows what that manga's demographic is and what it will mostly entail. From Dragonball to Saint Seiya to Kenshin. There is a certain core that shounen manga posess. Many are able to transcend the requisites in interesting ways like Hunter x Hunter. Others only do it briefly a la Kenshin.

Just episode 1? I personally like watching it in the Manga order...Episodes 1 - 12, 23 - 24, 28 - 62 (Kyoto) and the OVAs. I read the manga and I can't stand the fillers. Also, I like watching the whole show/manga before the OVA since you really start questioning and wondering about the charcter (like what did he do that was so bad?, etc.) Also, IIRC Episode 62 he visits Tomoe's grave (although they don't go on since Sony started creating that filler crap afterwards). At least chronologically, the OVA takes place after Shishio since it jumpstarts the Revenge Arc. I take it you've read the manga since you seem to know what you're talking about. I guess what I'm getting at is that I like to watch it as closely as possible to the manga (true) interpretation/story.

However, I do see your point about seeing the OVA after Episode 1 since I feel *similar* in that they should watch the OVA after..well..after some part of the TV series. If you watch JUST the OVA, you think Kenshin is just some badass (like I mentioned above). If you watch the TV series afterwards, you probably will get annoyed how this "badass" became so "gay" or whatever. Not that I think that though. I find Kenshin a pretty good character with decent motivations and background.

Haha, the demographics of Kenshin. Good point, I guess all of this is pretty pointless since the demographics probably start with Elementary kids through early high school. Either way I thoroughly enjoyed the story and it's aspects of redemption, atonement, etc.

Totally off-topic, but are you the "outlawed" who goes to ACen? I've been talking to Julius and I believe we're on a panel together

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dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:14 am

superspike wrote:no keep going

I like to read your views on this ^_^

I surely hope you have seen the entire TV series and OVA. However, based on your first post, I don't think you have. I actually think you should refrain from reading most of this since we're talking about the entire show and more importantly the end of it. I think this could potentially spoil quite a bit of Kenshin for you and trust me this is a show you don't want to be spoiled on.

superspike · Post by **superspike** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:17 am

dwchang wrote:
superspike wrote:no keep going

I like to read your views on this ^_^
I surely hope you have seen the entire TV series and OVA. However, based on your first post, I don't think you have. I actually think you should refrain from reading most of this since we're talking about the entire show and more importantly the end of it. I think this could potentially spoil quite a bit of Kenshin for you and trust me this is a show you don't want to be spoiled on.

thnx 4 telling me

I will stop reading the posts on this thread, and id like to buy the show but It has WAY to many DVDs

I have seen the Trust OVA though

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:22 am

superspike wrote:
dwchang wrote:
superspike wrote:no keep going

I like to read your views on this ^_^
I surely hope you have seen the entire TV series and OVA. However, based on your first post, I don't think you have. I actually think you should refrain from reading most of this since we're talking about the entire show and more importantly the end of it. I think this could potentially spoil quite a bit of Kenshin for you and trust me this is a show you don't want to be spoiled on.
thnx 4 telling me

I will stop reading the posts on this thread, and id like to buy the show but It has WAY to many DVDs

I have seen the Trust OVA though

That sucks..."Trust" or whatever you wanna call it, chronologically takes place after Episode 62 of the TV series. I know it's his past, however it takes place after Kyoto in a flashback...trust me it makes sense when you watch the TV series. I highly recommend it (up to 62...or rather the episodes I mention 1 - 12, 23 - 24, 28 - 62 since that's the true manga form). Get back to us afterwards

.

I do understand the money issue. If you're lucky, maybe you got a local comic book or anime store that rents

.

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 6:33 pm

dwchang wrote:but didn't know it was a common term. Perhaps it was someone else because I highly doubt my Japanese friend wouldn't know.

I may have been missing the forest for the trees. "Rurou" as "wander" is common. "Rurou ni" as "to wander" is common usage. However, now that I remember they seem to actually address him as Rurou ni or some slight variant as a title as opposed to "wander" or "to wander." That usage would be made up I guess. I'm not sure how you would title him as "wanderer." I think you could just add "jin" on the end for person. So your friend and I were just looking at it from different points. My view being the base linguistics of the word.

dwchang wrote: Totally off-topic, but are you the "outlawed" who goes to ACen? I've been talking to Julius and I believe we're on a panel together .

Yes. I believe I spoke with you last year at Acen during pre-judging. You were there pretty late like Julius and myself I seem to recall.

The moniker is actually "The Outlaw." As for the origins of that.. hi-mi-tsu. Non-AMV related anyway hehe. The username outlawed is short for "Outlawed Productions"

TekkaRepliroid Zero · Post by **TekkaRepliroid Zero** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 9:56 am

Wow, I wish I could have jumped into this one sooner, saved you guys a lot of typing on the rurouni stuff. But I have a life stolen away from me by college. Anywho;

Rurouni is not a word you will find in the dictionary. The ni is not a particle either. Rurouni is actually the word rurounin (it is not "ruroujin" as outlaw suggested. The fun of kanji - multiple pronounciations). Why is the spelling changed? It's some stylistic thing that one can do, and that Nobuhiro-sensei did do. Such last-character changes are more commonly done with adjectives (Example; a standard adjective can end in "i", "sa", "ki", or "ku", all depending on what effect or style you want), but it obviously was doable here. No, a letter wasn't just dropped (although it is another way of looking at it if not using kanji), but the kanji "nin" (or "jin", same character) is replaced with "ni".

Hito - person (nin and jin again here, same character)
Kiri - cut (verb kiru)

Sai - multiple translations, as you've already noted. These include "talent", "cut", "extreme", "judge" and "repeated". Anybody know what kanji they use to spell that (IF they used kanji for it)? -.-

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:46 am

TekkaRepliroid Zero wrote:Rurouni is not a word you will find in the dictionary. The ni is not a particle either. Rurouni is actually the word rurounin (it is not "ruroujin" as outlaw suggested. The fun of kanji - multiple pronounciations). Why is the spelling changed? It's some stylistic thing that one can do, and that Nobuhiro-sensei did do. Such last-character changes are more commonly done with adjectives (Example; a standard adjective can end in "i", "sa", "ki", or "ku", all depending on what effect or style you want), but it obviously was doable here. No, a letter wasn't just dropped (although it is another way of looking at it if not using kanji), but the kanji "nin" (or "jin", same character) is replaced with "ni".

Curiously then, shouldn't the US title be Rurou ni Kenshin then? I believe in the Japanese title they have Ru-Ro-u (SPACE) ni (I hope my romanization of these Hiragana makes sense) and then the Kanji for Ken and Shin (Sword and Heart I believe? I was under the impression Kenshin basically means Heart of the Sword).

Hito - person (nin and jin again here, same character)
Kiri - cut (verb kiru)

Sai - multiple translations, as you've already noted. These include "talent", "cut", "extreme", "judge" and "repeated". Anybody know what kanji they use to spell that (IF they used kanji for it)? -.-

Grr..I should've been more perceptive. I knew both of those words (Hito and Kiri that is) too and I never put it together

. So to be named Battou-sai would mean one who is talented at Battou (or in this case sword drawing). Therefore, as Outlaw and I were discussing (and now I see we're both sort of right), the title Battousai was given since he was so feared and whatnot and the specific reason for Battou is his talent...although as noted (and conceded) it has more to do with the fear people have of him and his just raw skill/talent (hence the sai at the end)?

TekkaRepliroid Zero · Post by **TekkaRepliroid Zero** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:51 pm

dwchang wrote: Curiously then, shouldn't the US title be Rurou ni Kenshin then? I believe in the Japanese title they have Ru-Ro-u (SPACE) ni (I hope my romanization of these Hiragana makes sense) and then the Kanji for Ken and Shin (Sword and Heart I believe? I was under the impression Kenshin basically means Heart of the Sword).

Well, you're bang on for Kenshin's name kanji, it is sword + heart/soul/spirit (pick one), but what are you talking about when you say there's a space in the kana? Written Japanese does NOT use spaces (which is one reason why kanji is actually important)... you'll only see it written with spaces in language texts to help you study. Besides, the way the stylized title is in Japanese, there's definately no space there.

As for what the US title should be, it definately shouldn't be Samurai X =P (as already dealt with in previous posts between you two). The Wanderer Kenshin is as accurate as a translation can get, the choice spelling of Rurouni instead of Rurounin doesn't translate, period.