How would you feel if they released fansubbed animes on DVD?

KLin · Post by **KLin** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:37 pm

I mentioned before in an earlier post that there are a few bootlegs that pretty obviously just copied the translations that were done by fansub groups and re-entered them. No credit is given to the fansub groups at all for that. Fansubbers don't translate anime for money they do it because they enjoy the series and want others to enjoy it too. They may take donations so as to facilitate obtaining raws and what-not but other than that they don't get involved in fansubbing for money. Lots of fansubs in the past and also a few in the present have little blurbs during the intermissions that tell you that if you bought the episodes you were ripped off. I think paying for fansubs sort of defeats it's purpose and motto. There are extenuating circumstance such as when the fansub groups need money in order to continue translation of a series or distribution but they'll probably ask for donations if that occurs.

Does anybody know how much the licensing fee is? It's probably more than a fansub goup can afford in any case.

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:41 pm

I believe about 10-20 thousand bucks for a low-profile series. For a major series the price is insanely high.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:47 pm

UncleMilo wrote: I know that one guy was instructed to rewrite his translation to remove all the exclamation marks. He couldn't begin to understand why he was given such a stupid instruction, but because he was the employee, he had to go back through his translation and remove all the exclamation marks.

If fan subbers want to have their work on official DVDs... they should seek out work for the anime companies here in the US. That's how many of the people who work in the industry now got started.

Just a few thoughts... badly organized...

-Uncle Milo

Yup, my friend subtitled the Vision of Escaflowne (among many others) for Bandai and he was forced to change "Vaughn" to "Van" since it the "ugh" isn't in the hiragana/katakana. However, it is quite obvious that it is in the pronounciation (vs. the car...a van). Same thing for Vargas -> Balgus. He did it since it's his job, but he is still very displeased that fans think that's the name...the car that is.

I don't think they had him change anything in Lain, Outlaw Star or Love Hina though. BTW his translations are awesome...this relates to Milo's point about fansubbers incorrectly translating. I think a lot of you are in the dark as to how incorrect a lot of these translations are. I know it's great that they release episodes a day after the Japanese, but guess what...something has to suffer.

(nod) on the the fansubbers going to industry. I have two friends who fansubbed a lot of stuff for our college anime club and are now working for ADV. They currently have subbed Kare Kano (although that's RightStuf), Rah Xephon, X TV (Pioneer), Noir, etc. The translator is japanese so I wouldn't worry about translations from her either.

As for the first post, I think this would be a VERY bad idea. Fansubs are already (technically) illegal and for fansubbers to distro DVDs, all they would do is put themselvesin the spotlight more. I know most companies are alright with fansubbers since it's free advertising and in the end most of us buy the DVD when it comes out, but if we already owned a DVD, it would probably take a little out of their sales. I might also add that it'd be hard for fansubbers on charging. IIRC the "rules" are for them to not charge more than the cost of the media (essentially free) since then it's not "selling." I can't see fansubbers doing this with the erratic prices of DVD media (i.e. they could charge you 5 bucks b/c that's what it is retail, and then buy it for a buck in bulk).

Then again, I dont wanna sound like I hate fansubs. They got me into a lot of shows that I now love and own. However, the fansubbing community is dying because industry is well..to be honest...really getting things done. Shows are licensed a few months after releasing in Japan, more shows are getting licensed, translations are better, etc. I don't think is a bad thing since fansubs purpose was to help anime grow in the US...they've definitely succeeded...just some random non-organized thoughts...

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:55 pm

dwchang wrote: I don't think they had him change anything in Lain, Outlaw Star or Love Hina though. BTW his translations are awesome...
thoughts...

Actually, in Lain Alice's name was made "Arisu" for some reason, even though its clearnly written as "Alice" in the anime itself. Otherwise I thought they did an excellant job on the show.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:09 pm

Zarxrax wrote:
dwchang wrote: I don't think they had him change anything in Lain, Outlaw Star or Love Hina though. BTW his translations are awesome...
thoughts...
Actually, in Lain Alice's name was made "Arisu" for some reason, even though its clearnly written as "Alice" in the anime itself. Otherwise I thought they did an excellant job on the show.

Really? In a domestic release it's ARISU? Argh! See again it's that LITERAL katakana since there is no ce in Japanese characters.

I guess I didn't notice since I saw the "beta" he had about 4 years ago. This was obviously before it was released and was probably the thing he shipped to Bandai (or is it pioneer) to which they (now I know) shipped back to him with that request.

Either way, I highly recommend things he's (Dave Fleming/Zero Limit Productions...you've probably seen quite a few things Zero Limit has done) done and my other friends (Shoko) since they are VERY good.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:11 pm

mckeed wrote:A lot of times the translation is changed, for the dubs at least, becuase the mouth flaps don't line up so they change the wording so that it doesn't look like a bad kung fu movie.

Oh argh! Don't even get me into that since it'll start another sub/dub debate. Suffice to say, I hate when they cut words out just to fit mouth movements. Yeah b/c the meaning isn't as important as the mouth movements

.

I was at a panel where they admitted to cutting out quite a bit of the script b/c they...FELT like it and they THOUGHT the character would say this instead. Yeah b/c they made the show!!! ARGH!

outlawed · Post by **outlawed** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:47 am

Zarxrax wrote:My and some guys have given some actual thought to doing this. Purchasing a license, selling dvds at cheaper than average price, and actually putting them out at decent rate, unlike some companies *cough ADV cough*
However the problem is in getting the money for the license, and then working out a model to make sure that you earn a profit, so you can afford to get another license :\

This was my dream once and that was when things were closer in affordability. How well are you guys informed on this issue? Your complaint about ADV prices seems uninformed as are those of most people who complain about domestic prices. ADV has actually been pretty smart and agressive too which is why they are growing. Sell series to diehards up front for higher value. Repackage in cheaper packaging at lower price and sell to different market segment. ADV probably sells there discs to retailers for around $17-$18 for 24.99 titles. Anybody want to verify my educated guess?

You are looking at :
Around $5,000 per episode upfront for video rights plus % of sales.
$15,000 to $25,000 per episode for TV rights and high royaltiy %, but this only makes sense as syndication rights on TV go for millions when you sell them. Now this is all upfront money I've mentioned. We haven't even got into production costs and the normal costs of operating a business (day to day supplies, shipping, etc). The only way you are gonna get something without having hundreds of thousands of available funds would be some indie productions maybe or something where you have a PERSONAL contact with the producers. By personal I mean a true personal friend who's in a position to barter a deal for you.

These types of numbers and the way companies who own actually own these rights (these are the producers who are not necessarily the anime company who animated the thing) are some of the reasons why we don't see certain shows here. Legend of Galactic Heroes has been solicited as a package deal for all rights (TV, books, models, etc). Kodomo no Omocha wass an upfront TV+Video rights package with all episodes paid for up front (which comes out to several million upfront).

Note: These figures may have changed even more since I last got some good numbers (I believe these examples are almost 1 year old).

BTW GQwu showed me your doujin addiction AMV. Nice job! Impressive job finding clean doujin shots. LOL!

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:09 am

outlawed wrote: Your complaint about ADV prices seems uninformed as are those of most people who complain about domestic prices. ADV has actually been pretty smart and agressive too which is why they are growing. Sell series to diehards up front for higher value. Repackage in cheaper packaging at lower price and sell to different market segment. ADV probably sells there discs to retailers for around $17-$18 for 24.99 titles. Anybody want to verify my educated guess?

I wasn't complaining of ADV's prices, but rather their speed. The way they license titles and then finally get around to releasing the first disc 2 years later.

outlawed wrote: You are looking at :
Around $5,000 per episode upfront for video rights plus % of sales.
$15,000 to $25,000 per episode for TV rights and high royaltiy %, but this only makes sense as syndication rights on TV go for millions when you sell them. Now this is all upfront money I've mentioned. We haven't even got into production costs and the normal costs of operating a business (day to day supplies, shipping, etc). The only way you are gonna get something without having hundreds of thousands of available funds would be some indie productions maybe or something where you have a PERSONAL contact with the producers. By personal I mean a true personal friend who's in a position to barter a deal for you.

$5,000 per episode? I know some stuff like Vandread costs more than this, but I also thought that their are some titles out there (like shoujo) where a whole series could be had for about $20 grand. Is this mistaken?

Garylisk · Post by **Garylisk** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:58 am

VKLL has started putting out Sailor Stars on DVD.

Check his website for more info.

TekkaRepliroid Zero · Post by **TekkaRepliroid Zero** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:19 am

Yeah, there are a couple of subbers out there that do DVDs already for their fansub distribution. Liquid Anime is another one (People, get subbed Tekkaman Blade from them, either through mIRC or their DVDs, you'll never see it released domestically because of Saban =P). Since this is the age of digi-subs, which are worse than DVD subs as far as distro control goes IMO, but because of digi-subs I can see why many wouldn't be aware of the fact that DVD Fansubs already are out there.

As for fansub translations vs. professional translations, people, this is what we call a two-way street. I've seen god-awful translations on so-called professional jobs. Speaking as someone who's studied Japanese quite a bit, I can prove a bad example when I see it. Now *flips a coin* on the other side, there are translations that as close as realistically can be. Props to these people, thank goodness they're in the industry or we'd really be in trouble. English is a difficult language to learn for the Japanese, and any non-native speaker for that matter, Japanese grammar is easier than English grammar (and English is my first language, and I'm saying this, that should tell you something - and this is a run-on sentence, but moving on). Language in general is very complicated, especially with idioms and dialects, which is why word for word is suicidal if at all possible (although it sometimes is possible between English and some European languages), so reinforcing some people's point that "accurate" isn't necessarily "right". Fansubbers have shown great skill (Kodocha would be an awesome example) and can be superior to professional subs, but it depends which ones are being compared to which ones. *flips the coin again, turns around, leaves, and the coin lands on it's side on the ground after leaving*