International Protests today 15/2

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AKH257
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Post by AKH257 » Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:34 am

my friend is going to one in new york on monday. i want go. fuckin tree huggers
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SSJVegita0609
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Post by SSJVegita0609 » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:10 pm

Mr Pilkington wrote:
Mr Pilkington wrote:That's total bull. Popular vote means squat. It's electoral vote that makes real decisions. And that's the same world wide. The people can vote all they want, but if the elector feels like being a bastard he can vote however he wishes. You children really havn't figured the world out yet have you?
Hmmmm, someone has a nice little conspiracy theory here, and I'll admit it certainly is possible. However, it is what it is, a theory. You have no proof, and you can't make that statement based on what you would do in that situation alone. Therefore, I disregard your post.

You really are a fucking idiot arn't you? Either that just an ignorant child. You live in the US, you should know. If not heres' a harsh lesson in reality for you. All states have zones, each voting zone has an elector. When you go and vote, depenind on the popular vote of that zone the elector is to make an "Electoral Vote." Now there is no law stating that Electors HAVE to vote exactly as the populas voted. They can turn the tide by voting with the minority. And it does happen more often that people even realize. For instance, Bush won only by Electoral vote, Gore (that sorry fool) actually managed to get the popular vote. But in our society, as well as any democratic society across the globe, that is the cold hard truth. I fail to see the "conspiracy theory." I mean good lord, havn't you takenn govenrmen class? Or did they just fail to tell you anything at all?[/quote]

The founding ideas of this nation are that the people choose who gets elected. The electors know this, and it is their civil duty to vote the way the people vote. Your "Conspiricy Theory" is that you are saying that they do not actually do this. So, prove it to me. Until you can do so its simply a theory.
The best effects are the ones you don't notice.

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Dannywilson
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Post by Dannywilson » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:20 pm

Sadly Vegita, He's right... the elections in 2000 were won that way.
"in the morning when i have wood..i like to walk around my house and bump random shit with it.... " -Random comment on grouphug.us

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Mr Pilkington
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Post by Mr Pilkington » Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:27 pm

SSJVegita0609 wrote:The founding ideas of this nation are that the people choose who gets elected. The electors know this, and it is their civil duty to vote the way the people vote. Your "Conspiricy Theory" is that you are saying that they do not actually do this. So, prove it to me. Until you can do so its simply a theory.
Holy fucking bejeebus. You must live in a fantasy world. Either that or you walk around with your hands over your eyes. It happens every day of every election. There is nothing to prove just open your mind and quit with the naive act. It's a wonder you got this far in life without having to face reality.

AKH257 wrote:my friend is going to one in new york on monday. i want go. fuckin tree huggers
That is just sad, some people have really bad short term memories. So what would you dendrophiles do if a large city got irradiated? Or would you wrather sit around and wait for that to happen? Beacuse as we all know there is no threat out there large enough yet for the US to take action! Tree huggin bastards. Ford never should have given you a pardon.

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Post by NME » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:41 pm

I have the bomb.... in my pants...
nil per os

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SSJVegita0609
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Post by SSJVegita0609 » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:34 pm

Mr Pilkington wrote: Holy fucking bejeebus. You must live in a fantasy world. Either that or you walk around with your hands over your eyes. It happens every day of every election. There is nothing to prove just open your mind and quit with the naive act. It's a wonder you got this far in life without having to face reality.
If only everyone in the world were as naive as me. It would be a far better place. People forget that the government is not some machine, its run by human beings to, and each individual has their own set of morals and their own definition of justice. I'm quite aware of the corruption present in the system. However, I don't think there's nearly as much as you make it out to be. All you've said thus far when it comes to actual evidence of any of it is "Holy shit face reality you stupid fool". I'm asking for a solid peice of evidence of the horrid corruption and amoral activities of which you speak. Now any dumbass can say watergate or white water, but I want proof that the current government was put in to place unjustly, and that voting in the next election won't matter and Bush will win no matter what (Which is what you seem to think). Until you can at least present me with a peice of evidence, or at least a logical deduction, then shut up with your "naive" bullshit.
The best effects are the ones you don't notice.

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kthulhu
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Post by kthulhu » Sat Feb 15, 2003 3:47 pm

My thoughts:

1. War protestors have every right to protest, and do deserve some measure of respect for doing so, but in all honesty: isn't it rather pointless?

I can't think of a single major US policy change (or any foreign ones) caused by a citizens' protest. The government, if they're even paying attention, just sees 500,000 people nationwide protesting, at best, compares that to the other 284,500,000 who aren't saying anything, and just assumes the other 284,500,000 people don't care or are for the war.

Look at the Vietnam war. Lots of protests, a somewhat more receptive government, and we were still there for nearly a decade.

2. The "no war at any cost" mentality of some (many?) protesters is just as wrong as the "war at any cost" mentality of much of our government. We CAN'T wait out or ignore every conflict in the world. Doing so can mean the conflict comes to us eventually, in some form, or ruin our already somewhat shaky foreign image when we don't try to stop genocide or other atrocities. We can be more selective about what we get into, however, and also not act pre-emptively when there is no conflict (this Iraq war).

Just some thoughts as I chug strawberry soy milk out of the quart.
I'm out...

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akatoro
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Post by akatoro » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:19 pm

Mr Pilkington. You say that every country elects their whatevers like the US does? That's wrong and besides the point.

And to answer both Mr Pilkington and Kthulhu:
Germany and France both changed their minds and argued against bush after large protests in their countries. So Peoples opinions to matter.

And didn't USA withdraw from Vietnam because protests back in USA?

Human nature is not to destroy but to survive. Some try to do this with force and by clinging on to weapons - trying to eradicate that which threatens them.

And eye-witnesses (I chose to believe them) said that when the USArmy introduced the smart-bombs they said it wouldn't be able to kill any civilians. Yet when they were going to bomb a city-counsil house they only succeded at the thirteenth try.
People that rocks my socks: Uncle Milo
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Post by MistyCaldwell » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:25 pm

It's true that the government officials (Bush and the administration) don't seem to care much. But to consider that our nation looks like a big bully telling another nation they can't have weapons because they have dangerous agendas...coming from a nation with a crapload of nukes...it's just making a lot of people hate us.

Saying that, having protests at home does send a message of sorts to foriegn nations with leaders who have a better understanding of foreign policy. In other words, it's beneficial for our image if nothing else.

Still, it's just insulting to be ignored when if you look at a financial paradigm...we are the government's boss. Man, look at what our employees get away with. Buying prostitutes with company money, taking bribes from corporations left and right...and buying up a stockpile of weapons that is building up or debt. :roll:
Time for some layoffs...er....coups, let me tell you. :lol:
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Omega Bahamut
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Post by Omega Bahamut » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:36 pm

My 2 cents :

Many people in Iraq don't even support the regime.

I mean remember when the US told Iraq to try and overthrow the regime...they tried and failed at the loss of heavey casualties.

Many people over there do hate the US from scars still left from the Gulf war.

People who say anything bad about the regime in public get taken away and tortured/exucted.

I agree with getting rid of the regime just not bombing Iraq.
I've got no soul to sell....
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