At what point is constructive criticism no longer useful?

[CodeZTM]

I'm kind of at this point. Not entirely because I still like getting some feedback on my videos in terms of atmosphere and how well I did telling the story/concept. When I get critiques back, I like to hear how the scenes and the overall video worked.

I'm aware how I edited it, I'm aware HOW I could have edited it. I just chose not to for one reason or another, and chalk it up to my style.

Plus, the older editors don't take criticism anyway. Hell, on many vetran editors, posting anything but jokes about dinosaurs or ediolon's abscene gets you a nice swift kick in the rear from the peanut gallery.

So yeah, I hear what you're saying, and I agree.

But I'm not saying we shouldn't stop giving criticism completely. If something really doesn't work, I'm still gonna point it out.

[Kireblue]

This is actually less a question for everyone out there than it is an observation I've made over the past year or so.

Basically, there came a point in my life as an editor (around a year and a half ago, when I finished Hold On) where I no longer needed people telling me how to improve my AMVs. Don't misunderstand - I'm not saying I make perfect AMVs now, or anything so vain, but rather that I have my own standards and other people telling me what to improve doesn't really mean anything to me.

To prevent this from becoming another boring "edit for yourself, not others" kind of discussion, let me clarify further, because I believe that no matter how much you make a video for yourself, if you release it to the public you have some innate desire (no matter how small) to impress others. I don't care about that, so when I say "I have my own standards", I mean to say that I know what looks good and I know what doesn't. I've been editing for three-and-a-half years now, I've seen enough videos and made enough of my own that no one needs to tell me "You need to sync here" or "This scene doesn't really match those surrounding it". In short, I'm technically competent (or at least I like to think so), and all the rest is just a matter of taste.

As a further example, I released a video two days ago, and while it hasn't gotten great reception, pretty much all the criticisms (too much internal sync, music/anime mismatch, pacing) are things that I chose to do deliberately, and are actually the main reasons I like the video so much. Basically, I'm not even receiving constructive criticism anymore, just people telling me why they like/don't like my videos.

So I guess my question is...does anyone else feel this way? Where you don't really need to be told how to make a video anymore?

Conversely, when I download other people's videos and post in their announcement threads, I tend to give constructive criticism based on what I know about that editor. For example, I probably wouldn't post in Ileia's announcement thread saying "You need to do more sync here, here, and here" because she's been making excellent videos since before I even started editing. I would probably say something more along the lines of, "I don't like this video because I feel that there's too little sync here, here, and here". So is it just a matter of language depending on the "level" of editor you're dealing with?

Meh, just a few random things I've been mulling over recently.

I think that Chiikaboom said something similar a few days ago in that podcast interview. I definitely don't feel that I'm anywhere near the point where I don't need criticism, but I understand what you mean. I guess that If you see a video made by someone relatively new, then you should offer constructive criticism in order to help them learn. But if a video is made by someone above your level, or has a considerable amount of experience making good videos, then they are probably content with their current video and editing skills. And everything in their video was probably on purpose.

[BasharOfTheAges]

I actually don't think Godix is even answering this question I mean Crack is saying 'he tires of TAKING criticism' Godix is saying 'he tires of GIVING criticism'

Seriously either Godix doesn't know WTF he's talking about in this instance or I don't know WTF I'm talking about. Probably the latter, but I wish other ppl would just think. I mean I can see noobs doing this, but...

I have issue with what Godix says anyway. I mean how can you tire of giving criticism really?? You just gotta give it in a different way is all.

No, I think he's saying he knows giving it is pointless because, despite what they might even say some times, most people don't even want it. They just want you to to "lol +1 tatwuzgr8!!!1one" it like on youtube.

[Zarxrax]

If I want criticism, then I will ask someone for it while I'm making my video. Once my video is completed, that means I'm either satisfied with it, or I'm aware of certain issues but I don't really care about changing them. At that point I could care less about criticism, because its completely useless to me. I'm not going to go back and change a video after it's released, and any future videos that I do will probably be sufficiently different that your criticism isn't going to be useful for them.

When I was a noob and I didn't know wtf I was doing, I found criticism helpful. But after a year or two, I pretty much knew what I was doing.

[Knowname]

see what I hear in here is 'oh! I'm old and set in my ways you can't make me change!' this, again, is the point where your enthusiasm leaves yet your motivation remains. You end up coming back day after day (or year after year) simply to do the same old thing... like in a job, with money to keep you motivated... only we don't have money >.<. This feeling becomes like a depression, everybody hates someone who's in a depression. It's not that they don't want to do anything, it's that 'hey, you know what I want to do today!! Nothing!' it's that their totally predictable, they have no enthusiasm. Maybe they have the motivation to go to work. To hop on the computer first thing in the morning. But being stuck in that rut is like saying your not doing anything, a robot could easily replace you. This lacks enthusiasm and enthusiasm is the spice of life.

What you want is to remain enthused, and I find the best way to do that is to get involved with a community. Be it AMVs (though don't be like me and just hyper-invoved with the internet amv community -_- or others that have no life) or coaching a youth baseball team or whatever that tends to keep the enthusiasm up. Go outside, get a life, don't be stuck in a rut. You'll actually accept criticism better this way.

BUT AGAIN the 'I'm old and set in my ways' approach DOES work... from time to time. But it's always good to accept the opinions of your peers, even just a little. Yeah when I beta I don't look for anything BUT ppl's first impressions. Anything else they give me is extra, cuz I don't take this hobby to the n'th degree. I accept that... I just don't always listen to it, be it personal 'editing style' or the fact that I just DON'T know how to stretch that faster scene to fill that long space and typically my beta tester is not gonna give me the scene to work with so it's all up to me, and my personal 'editing style' is JUST BE YOURSELF (or lazy ~.~) ie somebody might complain about certain scenes being obstructed by unnecisary transparent backgrounds. Well I don't know how to mask in video form, unless you do it frame by frame, and I'm not gonna do it! Maybe next time. I hate ta say it but that's fine, that's my 'editing style' transitions mixed with green screen/ blue screen whatever has got to do. It works, it gets old if you use that excuse a whole lot, but it works from time to time.

[Knowname]

I have issue with what Godix says anyway. I mean how can you tire of giving criticism really?? You just gotta give it in a different way is all.

No, I think he's saying he knows giving it is pointless because, despite what they might even say some times, most people don't even want it. They just want you to to "lol +1 tatwuzgr8!!!1one" it like on youtube.

That's exactly how I read it and notice I erased most of my post and only kept the relevant line. Maybe kids nowadays are different, but back in 2004 (when Zarx was a noob lol... wait when WAS Zarx a noob??) you could get a good idea of how much someone accepted the criticism by the 'chattiness' of their reply. I did TONS of ops back then (as many vets know) and I prided myself by getting chatty replys, not just the generic 'thank you come again!'... and boy was Silver_Moon a tough cookie to crack, this is also why I HATE QCs, there's no way to reply to them. Anyway I hate to be so general but I find ppl LIKE to talk *_* maybe not everybody is as argumentative as myself, but everybody likes to talk about themselves. Yes, they will like the "+1z" and all but I think they liked the ones that made them talk even more! I found that these ops weren't usually the longest ones, the most or the least critical ones, they were the ones that 'spoke the loudest', the ones that hit on points (usually unique) that really get to the issue. Now that I think of it most weren't criticism, but "I see what you did there!" type things with "but instead this is what I'd do". See that way you still get your criticism acrossed (psh... tire of criticism... wtf is that??) but you actually sound like your agreeing with the other person.

It's always fun to trick the other noob into doing what you want them too anyway lol.

[Pwolf]

If I want criticism, then I will ask someone for it while I'm making my video. Once my video is completed, that means I'm either satisfied with it, or I'm aware of certain issues but I don't really care about changing them. At that point I could care less about criticism, because its completely useless to me. I'm not going to go back and change a video after it's released, and any future videos that I do will probably be sufficiently different that your criticism isn't going to be useful for them.

When I was a noob and I didn't know wtf I was doing, I found criticism helpful. But after a year or two, I pretty much knew what I was doing.

x2 to the max

[godix]

I actually don't think Godix is even answering this question I mean Crack is saying 'he tires of TAKING criticism' Godix is saying 'he tires of GIVING criticism'

I was talking about the same issue, but from the other perspective. As someone who has, and occasionally still does, give honest constructive criticism, I see that most people don't take constructive criticism. Which is what the thread is about.

I have issue with what Godix says anyway. I mean how can you tire of giving criticism really?? You just gotta give it in a different way is all.

It depends on how in depth you go, but when I seriously review a video like for a beta or something, I end up watching it several times all the way through as well as reviewing certain points in the video repeatedly. It actually takes a lot of my attention and a fair amount of effort to honestly review a video. On the other hand, I've had enough practice trashing videos that I don't even need to actually watch it at all to insult it.

[Phantasmagoriat]

I think I see what you mean, and it probably depends if the critic can see what you were trying to achieve with a video,
[and if they think that's even important in their 'constructive criticism'.]

If they can see that, then they can offer insight into what makes your approach effective/ineffective. [The communication/language between the editor and critic changes immediately once this is understood.] If they can't see that, then criticism doesn't go very far-- unless you just want criticism on the mechanics of your editing... but when you see yourself as technically competent, this is rarely the type of criticism offered... and is usually not your primary concern either [unless you're in beta]

Personally, I find true constructive criticism explores what I was trying to achieve. It helps construct 'new understandings' by building upon my 'previous understandings' [if I'm not mistaken, that's why it is called *constructive* criticism]. In AMV's your 'previous understandings' are evident in how your editing reflects what you were trying to do. So if the critic doesn't acknowledge your intentions, it may or may not be useful to you... but I wouldn't even call it constructive criticism.

Unfortunately, viewers tend to prioritize their own intentions over the editor's--
ie. When people watch AMV's, they are looking for what they want to see, rather than what the editor wants to show.
That's just the nature of entertainment.
[which gets in the way of criticism being truly constructive and useful]

/2cents

[Infinity Squared]

It often got pointed out. I always knew that some people might dislike it, but in the end I didn't want this scene in any other way.

This about sums it up for me. Thing is, when I see a video these days and I analyse their edits and techniques it's not often too hard to think, "yeah, I see what they did here... I can definitely do that myself... just I can't be stuffed."

There aren't very many editing techniques in this hobby that I'm not at least aware of if not totally familiar with by now whether it be some technical thing, or a way of presenting something. Hence, if something in my video felt "lacking" to someone criticizing it, it's because I was satisfied to show it that way or there are limitations to what tools or motivations I have in hand. If I'm sufficiently motivated and have the tools, I can do it now with little to no help from other editors.

Hence, yes, I do think I've reached the point where when someone gives me some criticism over my video, I generally just gloss it over and admit that I knew it wasn't going to entertain everybody but also that it was going to entertain at least some. That's the nature of entertainment. Trying to satisfy everyone is compromising on an original mission.