[beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

[Nya-chan Production]

I want to go and tell you "I don't think it should be this clean". More people want to, as you've seen. But it's not possible, instead the reply is "You can spend days, or even months on this thing I could try within an hour or so (though maybe later in the project, when more stuff is there). And then present it to me/people and we might consider it. Or throw it away". I doubt anyone would want to spend months on a thing that might get thrown away in a minute.

The situation wouldn't be much different if the languages and frameworks were different. You're still going to have to learn them and that's going to take time. On top of that it's counter productive to just stop what you're doing and start making changes based on request. If you want to make changes, fork the code. If you don't know how, learn how. If it takes months, so be it, at least then you'll have a better understanding of the code and god forbid you help at that point.

You can also open up photoshop and make visual changes yourself.

I think I can agree with most of that (with small differences I won't bother going into). What irks me the most, I suppose, is the very harsh approach to anything that's thrown in. It kind of... keeps me down and often unmotivated to offer anything new or else, because I know it will be shot down anyway, without me really knowing why.
Maybe it's my bad understanding, maybe trythil's over-technicality, probably both, but it just makes the dialogue here very tough. He sees everything I offer as pointless, because he has some aim, and that aim can be really well-thought and good, I can see loads of work behind it. But I can't get the grasp of this aim, because he can't explain it, he always digresses into this or that technical stuff where I stop caring instead:

I just... don't know how to REALLY help with this project. I know I can't help with this timewise, with helping with 3 cons a year, managing a website and going to work. Forking is something unmanageable for me at this moment. But I DO want to help... Maybe that Photoshop work? But the fact that my ideas aren't even considered and are taken as an attack against...

Gah, I'll just go sleep instead. Oyasumi~n...

[Kaream]

@ I fight for the users

I seriously encourage you to keep doing what you are doing and don't lose focus on the re-design project in regards to the feedback.

[drewaconclusion]

Just gotta say, the sentiment behind "don't like the way I'm doing it? fork your own branch and change things." doesn't really mesh with having a feedback thread - especially if you want feedback from non-developers (i.e. the overwhelming majority of the user-base).

Oh, hi Slashdot. Two responses.

Sanya-nya has suggested changes based on a fundamentally incompatible design philosophy that I have rejected many times. The only solution forward in that case is forking. (Unless there exists a good explanation for why the present philosophy is wrong which nobody has yet advanced.)

Additionally, I am not interested in everyone's feedback. If I seriously considered everyone's opinion, the end product would be shit. I am instead working with a small group of people who I have come to trust. (So far: Ileia, AisuzuZwei, and Brad has chimed in about typefaces.) Membership is not closed, but I do give more serious consideration to feedback that demonstrates more than superficial knowledge of my goals and design principles.

The end product here might still fail, but it won't fail from lack of focus. (You know, because the past few years of this design thing have seen so much progress.)

Oh, I fully understand development choices have to be made and stuck to if progress is to happen. I almost feel like you're presenting a comment box that will get dumped in the trash because it's the polite thing to do and gives the illusion of interaction so you can point to it being there if people complain when it's all done. Like it's just a formality. Stuck between that and doing completely closed door design work, I can see where that might be the more palatable option.

Don't mind me - i just like pointing out things that seem silly to me.

x2 very much so

Also...I have to say that I look at this design and see something that is highly generic and is presenting a very cold, clinical approach to the AMV hobby. This last is a reputation a-m-v.org has which we all know has turned a lot of people away from this site. It's fine to look like we have a website that knows what it's doing, but where is the fun? Where is the casual love of AMVing? Where's the personality? The current site may be troublesome, but it's got fun colors, fun images and (in certain areas) fun copywriting that all help establish the feel of this site is. Do we really have to abandon all of that personality in pursuit of a more modern, updated website that's all whites and grays? To me this looks like you are re-branding a-m-v.org on top of designing a new website, and since we've been asked to share our opinions, I do not like the way this new a-m-v.org looks or feels for the reasons stated. Maybe more personality will be added into the center, but right now I can't really see what's going to be there...and that still leaves a frame around every page that doesn't exude great personality or brand.

Along these lines, where is space being allocated to effectively branding this website AS a-m-v.org? That whole featured video space at the top...I can't even make out what those images are supposed to be or represent (Princess Tutu, I know), but how is that compelling to click on? There's no hook there than "Featured Video" and a sliced up gallery of partial images. How is a whole, website-wide string of images the most effective way to get people to check out that video? I can't see why it needs to take up that much space or be presented like that. That whole areas is where I would expect to see something that clearly establishes "HEY, You're at a-m-v.org!!"

Drift pretty much summed up what I was originally thinking on the topic, so another x2.

[Kaream]

I do agree that the beta interface is a bit bland and could use more features. Featuring one video at a time isn't a good idea, a better idea would be to follow YouTube's 2.0 technique of displaying trending videos. 4 Video thumbnails displayed in horizontal view and simultaneously transition to another 4 set of randomly trending videos.



Also the layout is a bit unusual and outdated, you should get rid of color palette and keep one simple color. In-case you were planning to scatter everything around the page, designing the new modules and features to fit inside the box module would be a good idea.

You were using Apple as an example you might as well take a little more flavor from the Apple interface. It's very sleek, beautiful and clean. But this is an AMV Site, so a little colors won't hurt. Maybe when the mouse highlights a link in the sidebar (I assume it's a side bar) you can animate it to jitter a little and the color changes; something creative and unique to an amv site.

I also believe you will be keeping the random Banner feature correct?

[Kaream]

If you do plan on keeping the 2 module color palettes than a ditto of Apple's color palettes would be a nice idea. Those two colors compliment each other very well, the one's you've chosen feel odd

[Nya-chan Production]

I also believe you will be keeping the random Banner feature correct?

No, he won't, I can inform you on that. I've already asked, and it was explained to me that this design is about pure effectivity and the banner is useless clutter. Or something along the way.

[Pwolf]

I also believe you will be keeping the random Banner feature correct?

No, he won't, I can inform you on that. I've already asked, and it was explained to me that this design is about pure effectivity and the banner is useless clutter. Or something along the way.

How about instead of bitching all the time you come up with an idea that could incorporate random banners and still keep good effective use of the site?

[Pwolf]

I also believe you will be keeping the random Banner feature correct?

The banner feature in it's current state, probably not but using the new banner/video system David has in his version of the site could be used for other content other than just a new video. I have an idea how to make it work and will do some mock ups when I get back from work.

[CodeZTM]

I also believe you will be keeping the random Banner feature correct?

No, he won't, I can inform you on that. I've already asked, and it was explained to me that this design is about pure effectivity and the banner is useless clutter. Or something along the way.

How about instead of bitching all the time you come up with an idea that could incorporate random banners and still keep good effective use of the site?

I'm sure Nya-Chan is feeling the same frustration that many of us are feeling at the moment. Lack of coding skills means that unless IFFTU (or one of the two/three other people on the project that knows coding) codes a particular feature that we currently use, and if administration clears the final website without it, we're going to lose a feature that we love utilizing. I'm feeling the same way with the opinion system and the current design philosophy, and I quite literally feel rather helpless about it.

Though I realize that this isn't the final state, and I'm patiently waiting before I start critiquing the entire project.

[Pwolf]

OK then, answer this question:

Would you rather nothing change at all or have someone working on a new site that may or may not have a feature you like? Point being, the "majority" of the people on this site want something new. Now that something new is in the works, you're frustrated you wont get what you want. Make up your mind. There's no way we can make everyone happy. The best approach is to do what you think will be best and let the people decide if it actually works. Considering there's nothing to really test at the moment, no one knows for sure if it will work.

An opinion system is a tough thing to get right. The current system isn't good but its not a problem that needs to be addressed right away. If you want to help, research and discuss with people how to tackle the problem and present David with your findings. He may actually use it. This requires absolutely no programming skills. No matter what website we end up with, this is something that would change either way.

The opinion system aside, think of ways, using David's design, to implement what you want. You're (not you specifically but in general) not helping anyone by bitching and whining about every little thing and making wild assumptions.

Anyway, stop being frustrated about what you don't see and either 1) talk to David and understand he's viewpoints about why he's doing what he's doing or 2) let him do his thing and see what the end product is.