Asking for trouble... or not?

[Quin2k]

Now, I'm not trying to get people upset on my first post... but I really must ask. Is this thread still the general consensus for "Avatar: The Last Air Bender"?

In Japan, the term anime does not specify an animation's nation of origin or style; instead, it serves as a blanket term to refer to all forms of animation from around the world. English-language dictionaries define anime as "a Japanese style of motion-picture animation" or as "a style of animation developed in Japan". - Link

Now, I know Wikipedia isn't the best source, but even my limited knowledge of the Japanese language and a visit to dictionary.com can vouch for both points. I'm just looking to have an intelligent conversation about this. I sought this community out because every time I hear a specific song, I get images of a possible video based around that anime-inspired animation.

[mirkosp]

AnimeMusicVideos.org has its own definition of what is considered anime for database purposes... this definition doesn't exactly match others. For example: video game cutscenes are considered anime, but I doubt they would be considered such by other definitions, especially the ones rendered in real time by the cpu and not just actually stored as videos.

We recently had a discussion on how to update our definition of anime here, but American animation, in which "Avatar: The Last Air Bender" falls right into, would not fit in. This is because we're starting out with the English meaning of the word anime, and trying to give it more clarity since, as it generally stands, it is a rather blurry definition. One of the things suggested was to consider anime as "Japanese looking animation." The main issue with that definition is that it doesn't really make things any clearer since Japanese animation itself has quite a widespread amount of different styles and so on.
Let me give a good example: would you consider "The Powerpuff Girls" as anime-looking? Most people would reply no to that, seeing how the style is so far from what is usually considered "anime." However, the recent "Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt" anime by GAINAX has a visual style very closely reminiscent that of "The Powerpuff Girls," so clearly, if we went by the "Japanese looking animation" definition, people would argue that "The Powerpuff Girls" should be considered anime and they would have the right to. By using similar arguments one would be able to get animation such as "South Park" or "Happy Tree Friends" considered as anime, but we doubt they would really fit in.
So, as you might now realize, the key point here is keeping the rules as clear as possible. Generic definitions don't help, and while we won't ever be able to fully remove a "grey area" that will require a case by case evaluation, removing possible doubts and misunderstandings in the definition is something to be sought. Thus, when some kind of animation falls into a grey zone, it is safer to cut it out or reserve the right to decide case by case, rather than change the definition to fit it in with the risk of blanket-allowing anything and everything through some astute reasonings.

That said, keep in mind that you are not prohibited to enter and upload music videos using Avatar, just as long as the footage used is actually mainly anime; what I mean is, you're allowed to mix in kinds of footage that are not considered anime (such as American animation or Live Action) in your music videos as long as the majority of the video still is made up of anime.

Hope this helps...

[CodeZTM]

Now, I'm not trying to get people upset on my first post... but I really must ask. Is this thread still the general consensus for "Avatar: The Last Air Bender"?

In Japan, the term anime does not specify an animation's nation of origin or style; instead, it serves as a blanket term to refer to all forms of animation from around the world. English-language dictionaries define anime as "a Japanese style of motion-picture animation" or as "a style of animation developed in Japan". - Link

Now, I know Wikipedia isn't the best source, but even my limited knowledge of the Japanese language and a visit to dictionary.com can vouch for both points. I'm just looking to have an intelligent conversation about this. I sought this community out because every time I hear a specific song, I get images of a possible video based around that anime-inspired animation.

No point trying to change the administration' or the site's general mind on this one. While it's obvious that Avatar is anime by 80% of reasonable standards, they just honestly don't care.

[Quin2k]

Well, I suppose that makes sense to a certain extent. I had actually thought the reasoning was based on something more substantial, like copyright laws. I don't really know where the silent majority of this site stands, but judging from the thread you mentioned, I am clearly not the only one who has this opinion.

While I acknowledge some level of a slippery slope[/quote] (a good read, by the way), but when an American animation goes so far as to include kanji in the title and animation, to mimic the art style, storytelling norms and character development - I find it hard not to give credit where credit is due. They clearly worked hard to include all of the elements that has made us such strong fans of Anime, and I can only hope that others will follow their example, because I'd like to see more of that no matter who inks it, directs it, or funds it.

I did not start watching Anime because it was produced in Japan, and I seriously doubt most of your members were inspired to create music videos from them based solely on the country of origin. They were inspired by the emotions expressed in the art and storyline, the way they handle mature and uncomfortable topics in a (usually) mature way. They way the characters develop over time and grow, rather then 'reset' every day like some comic strip. Even the early ones had uncomfortable topics that America balked at, whether violence, cross-dressing, or alternative relationships. They were concerned about a slippery slope as well, I might add.

[Quin2k]

Hmm... no edit button.

Meant to clean up a little bad grammar and include a point of reference to that last sentence, since it's rather vague.

[BasharOfTheAges]

As mirko said there is no anime style. That point (and anything that hinges off it) is therefore made from an incorrect starting assumption and is irrelevant to any argument you think you're making. Feel free to bitch about it on your journal or something, but it's been done to death on the forums here. I'd suggest reading the threads that make the same arguments over and over and actually read the responses by the mods/admins. The definitions the site uses are what they are and no amount of complaining will change them.

[Quin2k]

Ah. No wonder you're offended. It was you making the slippery slope argument:

The only thing I have a problem with are the exceptions given to original animation. It's in direct conflict with the rules you have written out and provides slippery-slope style arguments to let anything else in.

Here's another quote from the same thread.

They're asking for fucking feedback! How dense and anti-establishment :tinfoil: can you be!?! They're actively inviting feedback and doing polls for christsake! You think it's all going to just go up in a puff of smoke because it could? You can't give these honest hardworking people the benefit of the doubt that the forum they're providing is an openly democratic one without thinking it's all some illusion wrought to fool you? That's fucking pathetic.

Which is it? Set in stone, immutable, impossible to change because the Mods say so... or is it a democracy? Because, if they do stop listening to feedback, this place really might go up in a puff of smoke due to lack of funding.

What the heck inspires YOU to make Anime Music Videos? Because it was made by the Japanese?

[BasharOfTheAges]

My statement in that thread wasn't in favor of adding new things but, instead, to remove original animation as a valid category by critical analysis of logic as it was presented (often known as "rules lawyering").

The second quote is taken completely out of context - it was a responce to the decliration that NOTHING on the org was up for debate, which was blatently untrue as evidenced by opinion polls that were active at the time.

Some things are up for debate. This is currently not one of them. How to re-catalog the entries in the database for cross-linking english/japanese titles was something up for discussion at that time. Right now, our layout stuff is up for discussion under the org redesign section. Take a look at that and have fun with it. Beating this dead horse isn't going to get you anywhere when you're starting with the same flawed premise as everyone else that's tried it.

[Quin2k]

1. Read the definition of "Slippery Slope" before you use the term again.
2. Learn to read the whole post (here, I'll give you the key point):

I did not start watching Anime because it was produced in Japan, and I seriously doubt most of your members were inspired to create music videos from them based solely on the country of origin.

3. How many of the people who posed this question stayed long enough to contribute their time, knowledge or money to the site after being told their opinion was irrelevant?

This isn't about you or me, it's about the site; I'd like to hear some other voices. I'm not trying to prove I'm smarter or whatever, but after reading this thread (pinned in every category) my impression is that the mods want this community to grow.

I'm not suggesting the rules can or should change over night on my whim, but you really need to start doing some market research - starting with the people you already have. Questions like these would go a long way:

Do you feel our current rules on acceptable content...

• a) are fine as they stand
  b) need to be more restrictive
  c) need to be less restrictive

How would your contribution to the site change if the rules on content were more restrictive?

• a) they would not change
  b) they would increase
  c) they would decrease

Less restrictive?

• (same)

Ideally, this should be a survey not a set of polls, so you can include questions like "how much do you contribute now?" "How much would you contribute if the rules changed?" (time/knowledge/money/etc.) and get an idea on what the *real* financial/community impact would be for change. As it is, all you have is conjecture and fear of the unknown.

[Sukunai]

Anime is to animation in Japan as cartoon is to cartoons made not in Japan.

But when a show outsources to say Vancouver, or Korea, it gets messy.

It's easier to just cop out and say 'anime' is cartoon in Japanese and not care whether anyone has a bug up their ass about it.

I'm perfectly aware that Panty and Stalking looks a lot like Power Puff Girls. And in my view, both look like shit. South Park looks like shit too. And I couldn't care less what name they were given, nor do I want to watch them in a music video here or anywhere else.

I think Airbender is a great looking cartoon, but I am not so out of touch that I don't know it's not an anime. Those that are unaware it isn't anime, also likely couldn't give a shit. Which sure makes the whole distinction moot.

So denying Airbender access here, what precisely is the gain? I doubt anyone gives a damn if they are included here or not.
I don't come to the org because I think it is the greatest repository of amvs, I'm only here, because they usually are a greater deal better than anything on Youtube. Not that I never find great things elsewhere from here.