Evangelion: Classic or Overrated?

[shinji13]

[\quote]Evangelion is the best anime ever if you don't like it you are wierd my favorite character is rei and i dont care if she is fucked up she is still cool but that last couple of episodes are total wierd.

[the Black Monarch]

As for Rei's soul, it is the sould of Lilith, and Kaworu has the soul of Adam.

Sorry, but there is no evidence for that, AT ALL.

The evidence for Yui's soul being in Unit 01, and for Asuka's mom's soul being in Unit 02, is really thin. The characters who give such indications are the least mentally balanced of the cast...

No matter what anyone says, Evangelion is NOT overrated. While its true that it had its share of crap episodes, the characters were a bit two-dimensional, and both endings kinda sucked, the total sum of its parts is amazing. The story is the most complex and interesting of any work of fiction I've ever seen, the emotions are the most pure and intense of anything I've seen, the implications are more profound than anything you'll find in a philosophy book, and Rei brings out more emotions in me than any other character in any work of fiction. Yes, there are things that I would change, but everyone can say that about everything in their life. Nothing is ever perfect.

Any show with emotions as intense as Evangelion's cannot possibly be ovverrated. Any show with as widespread an influence as Evangelion's has to be classic. Any show with a story as great as that of Eva... well... has yet to be seen.

To me, Evangelion IS the second coming.

The English dub is a horrible butchery of the show. The English voices are such distorted parodies of the true characters that they make me physically ill, and the script changes are nearly all for the worse. I feel extremely sorry for anyone whose perception of Evangelion was permanently damaged because they saw the English version first.

Those who think Evangelion is overrated are like Magic: The Gathering newbies who don't understand why Necropotence is such a broken card. The drawbacks are noticeable, but nothing compared to the power.

[the Black Monarch]

I saw eva and at first I hated it. I oculd not get past asuka and rei blah blah blah... I still hate the entire cast with the exception of three characters ( Shinji, Misato, and Kaji.)

You like that self-hating loser Shinji and the double-crossing dirtbag Kaji, but you hate poor, deprived Rei? Rei actually tries to overcome her flaws and tries to sacrifice herself for Shinji and the rest of humanity! WTF is wrong with you? Eh, at least you hate Asuka, so I guess you're not entirely evil...

I really like "Session 08: Chemicals," by the way.

[dwchang]

The evidence for Yui's soul being in Unit 01, and for Asuka's mom's soul being in Unit 02, is really thin. The characters who give such indications are the least mentally balanced of the cast...

The evidence for Yui's soul in Unit 01 and Asuka's in 02 is fairly concrete and conclusive. There are even lines in the show specifically where they say this. I can go find them if so inclined (I hope you don't ask for them).

IIRC Asuka even says "Momma, you were in here the whole time...watching me..." etc etc. If you need more than that well...sorry.

Hmm...another one Fuyuski says in Episode...19 "She's awakened" or something when Eva01 eats the angel. That's all I can think of right now.

They also say that Eva's need souls to work. What else? Eva01 always protects Shinji (i.e. break out of the sphere angel, blocks that thing in episode 1, etc. etc.) I don't really think there is much to argue here IMO.

The English dub is a horrible butchery of the show. The English voices are such distorted parodies of the true characters that they make me physically ill, and the script changes are nearly all for the worse. I feel extremely sorry for anyone whose perception of Evangelion was permanently damaged because they saw the English version first.

Couldn't agree more. I hate all dubs from a fundamental point of view (purist), however Eva in particular b/c to do the characters incorrectly is to do the whole show incorrectly and the message.

Those who think Evangelion is overrated are like Magic: The Gathering newbies who don't understand why Necropotence is such a broken card. The drawbacks are noticeable, but nothing compared to the power.

It's sad that I know what you're talking about . I used to play competively a few years ago. Although I think I only had one Necro deck the entire time .

[dwchang]

You like that self-hating loser Shinji and the double-crossing dirtbag Kaji, but you hate poor, deprived Rei? Rei actually tries to overcome her flaws and tries to sacrifice herself for Shinji and the rest of humanity! WTF is wrong with you? Eh, at least you hate Asuka, so I guess you're not entirely evil...

Err...I don't know if you're in particularly supposed to "like" any of the characters in the normal sort of way (as in..."X is such a badass" b/c there aren't any).

However, at the same time, I do to a degree like Shinji as a character since the entire show is about him overcoming his problems and his growth. It's actually quite an uplifting message IMO. So, although Shinji is a "self-hating" loser, he overcomes his problems and chooses to live his life.

[the Black Monarch]

The evidence for Yui's soul in Unit 01 and Asuka's in 02 is fairly concrete and conclusive. There are even lines in the show specifically where they say this. I can go find them if so inclined (I hope you don't ask for them).

IIRC Asuka even says "Momma, you were in here the whole time...watching me..." etc etc.

By that time, Asuka had lost what little sanity she still had. I don't put much value on the delusional ravings of a girl who's completely lost contact with reality. Same goes for the whackjobs Gendo and Shinji. It's not like Unit 01 shouted, "Hey dumbass, I'm your mom!" No, Unit 01 crawled around like a dog and ate Angels instead. Yui would have at least walked over to the angel and eaten it with her hands instead of doing a faceplant...

Err...I don't know if you're in particularly supposed to "like" any of the characters in the normal sort of way (as in..."X is such a badass" b/c there aren't any).

Misato and Toji were quite the badasses when they needed to be, and Asuka was a badass even when she needed NOT to be...

I like Rei very much. She knows when to be passive and when to be assertive. The whole thing where she's feeling stuff for the first time in her life makes me really feel for her.

I do to a degree like Shinji as a character since the entire show is about him overcoming his problems and his growth.

The show is about Shinji, Misato, Rei, and Asuka overcoming their problems, or at least it's about their problems... I'm not too sure if Asuka really overcame anything as much as lost her mind...

It's actually quite an uplifting message IMO. So, although Shinji is a "self-hating" loser, he overcomes his problems and chooses to live his life

I guess that's one way to look at it, but I think Shinji was even more fucked up at the beginning of the movie than he was at the beginning of the first episode... I didn't see any growth in him, ever. I did, however, see a lot of growth in Rei.

Just by having this discussion, we are proving how classic/great/whatever Evangelion is!

[the Black Monarch]

On the subject of Magic, Mirari's Wake kicks ass.

[dwchang]

By that time, Asuka had lost what little sanity she still had. I don't put much value on the delusional ravings of a girl who's completely lost contact with reality. Same goes for the whackjobs Gendo and Shinji. It's not like Unit 01 shouted, "Hey dumbass, I'm your mom!" No, Unit 01 crawled around like a dog and ate Angels instead. Yui would have at least walked over to the angel and eaten it with her hands instead of doing a faceplant...

These are quotes directly from the Red Cross Book. For those who do not know, this was given out at the movie theaters while EoE was playing in Japan. These *are* the answers to a lot of questions in Evangelion. Why would I say such an arrogant statement? Because it was written by the creators of Evangelion to answer questions like yours:

"[EVA-01] (SHOGOKI)

...Colouring is purple. Dedicated pilot is Third Children -- Ikari Shinji. It seems that inside it lives the soul of his mother -- Ikari Yui. Also, it seems that the physical body of EVA-01 was made using Lilith. This is why in the case when the Spear of Longinus was lost, EVA-01 became the only substitute of Lilith as the tool for Human Complementation. "

"[EVA-02] (NIGOKI)

...Dedicated pilot is Second Children -- Souryu.Asuka.Langley. Inside EVA-02 lived the soul of Asuka's mother -- Souryu.Kyouko.Langley."

If you require more evidence well...I don't think there is anything else I can say since this is straight from the creators.

On a semi-related sidenote, here is a link to the Red Cross Book. Click on the "glossary" for definitions to other things you were confused about. I think this book clarifies about 90% of the "confusing" parts of Evangelion...straight from the creators.

Misato and Toji were quite the badasses when they needed to be, and Asuka was a badass even when she needed NOT to be...

I like Rei very much. She knows when to be passive and when to be assertive. The whole thing where she's feeling stuff for the first time in her life makes me really feel for her.

Well whatever you think. I for one don't think anyone in Evangelion is a "badass" perse, but I guess I have a different definition. .

As for Rei, you're certainly not in the minority. IIRC Rei has (on numerous occassions) one #1 anime female of all time on Newtype Japan.

The show is about Shinji, Misato, Rei, and Asuka overcoming their problems, or at least it's about their problems... I'm not too sure if Asuka really overcame anything as much as lost her mind..

Well you are correct to a degree. We don't necessarily know that Misato or Asuka overcome their problems since Instrumentality is still occurring and we only see what Shinji went through. We can only guess that everyone else is going through the same thing and optimistically hope that everyone else comes to the same conclusion Shinji did...that is to live their lives regardless of the possibility of being hurt (rejecting Instrumentality).

As for Rei, it is fairly conclusive that Rei does not participate in Instrumentality. She is a clone of Yui who has the soul of Lilith and in EoE we see that she returns to Lilith and begins Instrumentality. She also chooses Shinji to be the one who decides things. My guess is that Rei doesn't exist anymore since her purpose (to bring about Instrumentality and reunite with Adam or Lilith) has been completed. Also at the end of EoE, we see Rei on top of the water and then disappears. I think that pretty much is symbolic of her leaving.

I guess that's one way to look at it, but I think Shinji was even more fucked up at the beginning of the movie than he was at the beginning of the first episode... I didn't see any growth in him, ever. I did, however, see a lot of growth in Rei.

No growth in Shinji? Err...the show is about Shinji growing up. At the same time, you are correct that Shinji was more fucked up at the beginning of EoE. This is because Shinji reached his lowest point after killing the only person who loved him (or so he though), Kawrou (sp). I know a lot of people (including myself) don't like the scene where Shinji masturbates to a comatose Asuka, but it was put there for a reason. It definitely illustrates that Shinji has reached the lowest of the low (in fact, I think that was his quote).

However, at the end of the TV series & movie, we see that Shinji finally accepts reality and to be with people regardless of if they can hurt him. The entire show is about Shinji learning this and deciding that it is worth it to get close to people although they can hurt him (the Hedgehog's Dilemna). To me, it's quite an uplifting tale of triumph (although many seem to disagree and (IMO) ignorantly say that Eva is an f'ed up show and depressing). To say Shinji doesn't grow is to (IMO) pretty much chop down the entire essence and meaning of Evangelion.

As for the other characters, they all develop to a degree, but the show is fundamentally about Shinji. To me, the other chracters were all extremes of different personalities we all possess to a degree. Each of us, to a degree, can be arrogant, want attention, lonely & morose, etc. etc. I think Anno has those characters for that reason, but fundamentally wanted focus on the fall and triumph of one boy, Shinji Ikari.

I hope this doesn't come across as arrogant or angry because I'm not trying to be. You had questions and I am trying to help...I hope it does just that.

[dwchang]

Because I don't know how to close URL tags (or rather put a " " in it), here is that link again:

The Red Cross Book

ENJOY!

[dwchang]

On the subject of Magic, Mirari's Wake kicks ass.

OFF TOPIC
Unfortunately, I have not played since my Sophmore year in college (about 3 years ago) and am unfamiliar with the card. What set was it part of? My guess is it's a green card and probably creates some sort of 1/1 tokens (I guess I somewhat remember it since "X wake" seems familiar).

I for one always loved the Shivan Dragon (although not that good in tourneys...although I hear it is now). There's just something about a 5/5 Flying creature with Fire-breathing. By the same token I loved Serra Angels as well.

As for tourney level decks, I usually went with Sleigh (sp?), Green or White weenie and Red/Green. I always hated playing against blue counter decks so rarely played them although I should've since they're just SO good. That doesn't even include when Blue had those mad combos with Tolarian Academy or Urk! can't remember...that blue card from Fallen Empires.