Evangelion relationship to Greek?

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:52 am

CaTaClYsM wrote:btw, I don't understand how there could be any sort of "new beginning" if shinji didn't choose the whole "instrumentality complimentation" thingy. If he did on the other hand... then the name/ending would make PERFECT sense.

The new beginning is Shinji's

He redefines HIMSELF.

However, there are many thoughts that work here...

Gendo wants to create a new way for mankind with instrumentality... which is why EVAs were made... so that is another new beginning...

Then you can take the idea that the show is about mankind no longer needing ancient myths to live their lives... in this argument, the show is about the elimination of the ages of Gods... and man taking responsibility for his own life and his own actions... which would be a new beginning

Apparently, Shinji sets the pace for the future of the world... if this is the case, that is also a new beginning... if he changes the world from what it was to a new thing... but leaves man the way they are (and not some mass blob)... it would still be a new beginning

Again... all of mankind becoming a mass blob would be a new beginning... but it really is a dead end because there is no future for mankind... there is no originality... no creativity... no offspring... just stagnation.

-Uncle Milo

-Uncle Milo

Aetherfukz · Post by **Aetherfukz** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:10 am

UncleMilo wrote:Lillith was actually the second Bride of Adam...
Eve was the third.

Lillith went on to marry Cain and became the mother of all demons.

THis is very appropriate since the EVAs were made from the genetic material of Lillith in the series and are used to fight... angels....

Uhm, I always thought that Lilith was Adam's first wife, and Eva being the second after Lilith was banned from Eden... so who would be Adam's first bride then?

Peace out,
~Aetherfukz

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:31 am

OK...

as I understand it...

God tried to create a companion for Adam, but the first one was constructed before him... and he was terrified at witnessing the event
and so this unnamed companion was removed.

God made a second companion and she was made the same way Adam was and she had her own personality and her own desires and was too strong willed for Adam to deal with and her name was Lillith (and she is just more proof on how male-centric a lot of these old stories are)

After Lillith was removed, God made Eve from Adam so she would be subservient and docile and (what a shock) Adam was cool with that.

So...

First Bride - Constructed - First Child - Constructed
Second Bride - Strong Willed - Second Child - Strong Willed
Third Bride - Docile, Subservient - Third Child - Docile, Subservient

Well... it works for me

-Uncle Milo

MistyCaldwell · Post by **MistyCaldwell** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:44 am

woah...what sect or text did this stuff come out of? Never heard of it before in my life. In the baptist church, Cain's wife goes unnamed and is assumed to be one of his sisters like every other couple from the beginning.

RadicalEd0 · Post by **RadicalEd0** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:37 am

ah real mystics dont need $500 books they can just go to the akashic records of history themselves and find everything out there

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:03 pm

This is a quote from the evaotaku website about how the sereis ends, and it makes alot of sense to me.

In the TV ending Shinji chose to stay with Complementation - it isn't even clear that Shinji had a choice at all. He is treated as little more than an example of the process of Complementation - which consisted if breaking down Shinji's link to reality. In the end, Shinji looks at the world of Complementation and smiling happily says "I understand! I can exist here!" He is then congratulated for his decision, by friends living and dead (Kaji), a healthy Touji with his leg still on, and even PenPen. A surreal ending scene to say the least. This ending is similar in context and theme to the ending of George Orwell's book, 1984.

Conversely, the film ends in the opposite manner. Shinji does have a choice and in the last moments of the film utterly rejects Complementation precisely because it eliminates the link to reality, it establishes a false paradise. Complementation is basically a cop-out, and Shinji has matured enough to realize this. The tone at the end of the film isn't a surreal, almost drug-induced, joyful "Congratulations!" for Shinji, but the cold and harsh reality of life.

Further, the Newtype Filmbook description for the scene states (literally):
"Amidst the many words of congratulations, a faint smile starts at the corners of Shinji's mouth (and spreads across his face).
A happy face -- that is the figure of the Complemented Shinji. This conclusion is also one form, one possibility among many."
(Translated by Bochan Bird)

Note, "the figure of the Complemented Shinji". Pretty cut and dry.

JustAnOrdinaryPanda · Post by **JustAnOrdinaryPanda** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:56 pm

Meh, I don't believe anything outside of the bible anyway...

And you're totally over-analysing Eva, its not as deep as you say it is...

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:22 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:This is a quote from the evaotaku website about how the sereis ends, and it makes alot of sense to me.

In the TV ending Shinji chose to stay with Complementation - it isn't even clear that Shinji had a choice at all. He is treated as little more than an example of the process of Complementation - which consisted if breaking down Shinji's link to reality. In the end, Shinji looks at the world of Complementation and smiling happily says "I understand! I can exist here!" He is then congratulated for his decision, by friends living and dead (Kaji), a healthy Touji with his leg still on, and even PenPen. A surreal ending scene to say the least. This ending is similar in context and theme to the ending of George Orwell's book, 1984.

Conversely, the film ends in the opposite manner. Shinji does have a choice and in the last moments of the film utterly rejects Complementation precisely because it eliminates the link to reality, it establishes a false paradise. Complementation is basically a cop-out, and Shinji has matured enough to realize this. The tone at the end of the film isn't a surreal, almost drug-induced, joyful "Congratulations!" for Shinji, but the cold and harsh reality of life.

Further, the Newtype Filmbook description for the scene states (literally):
"Amidst the many words of congratulations, a faint smile starts at the corners of Shinji's mouth (and spreads across his face).
A happy face -- that is the figure of the Complemented Shinji. This conclusion is also one form, one possibility among many."
(Translated by Bochan Bird)

Note, "the figure of the Complemented Shinji". Pretty cut and dry.

Clearly the people who wrote this have no idea what the show was about. They clearly missed the whole point and missed even the most obvious of messages in the show. This analysis ignores so many things that are talked about/shown/and theorized. This is a pathetic interpretation

Anyone who says Shinji chooses merge into the "mass-mind" ignores the fact that EVEN THE SHOW questions if Instrumentality is the only course.

It is a dead end option.

You keep insisting that this is the way the show ends. I don't know how many things I can bring up and have brought up to argue this.

The facts are there... and I am well aware of the fact that there are 1000s and 1000s of people who saw the show and didn't get it. The creator of the series was besieged by hate letters and END OF EVA was made with that overall "FUCK YOU" feel to it (and some of the hate letters flicker by in that movie, I might add)

Anyway... the view you posted is very badly thought out and just plain wrong.

-Uncle Milo

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:25 pm

MistyCaldwell wrote:woah...what sect or text did this stuff come out of? Never heard of it before in my life. In the baptist church, Cain's wife goes unnamed and is assumed to be one of his sisters like every other couple from the beginning.

As I have said... this is the Khaballa... which is pre-Biblical. It is, to my understanding, the belief system that would evolve into the Jewish belief system.

The Bible used nowadays is just the stories that have been adjusted and cleaned up and otherwise changed...

Most faiths are just modifications and changes from previous belief systems.

-Uncle Milo

JustAnOrdinaryPanda · Post by **JustAnOrdinaryPanda** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:27 pm

I see no reason why that can't be a perfectly adequate interpretation of the series. There is not one right answer. You don't know everything, quit thinkin your the dogs bollocks and accept that its an ambiguous ending, where people can interpret their own things from it.