Evangelion: Classic or Overrated?

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:53 pm

I saw eva and at first I hated it. I oculd not get past asuka and rei and I skipped through most of the end waitign to see wtf was going on on the outside instead of what was going on in shinji's head. Then years later I decided to watch it again and give it another chance. I still hate the entire cast with the exception of three characters ( Shinji, Misato, and Kaji.) but I get the anime now. And I like it a LOT more than I did before, hell I actually enjoy it. But all this kabalah stuff doesn't change anything, just like the hermetic texts that hellsing was based on didn't change anything. It's all alegory.

AtomicWeezleman · Post by **AtomicWeezleman** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:54 pm

[quote="UncleMilo"]

the show is simply about Shinji. It's about a boy who seeks identity as he shifts from being a child to an adult. Along with that, it talks about us as people and asks the oldest of questions... who are we? Why are we here? What purpose do we serve? It leaves an empowering message of optimism that we can all take with us.

as for episode 26 the end of it, to me it gave the impresion, yeah im a teenage, this part of my life is fucked up just like everyone else, everyone goes throught that kind of thing (minus the evas of course!) its just the normal flow of life

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:59 pm

AtomicWeezleman wrote:surely, you couldn't get it all in one viewing, understand the chronology of the entire series, well maybe you could but since i saw the series first, i cant really hold an opinion on whether you would be confused or not, i know one of my freinds was, but hey, hes easily confused (anything deeper than a fight confuses him)if you understood it and like it.
Then that good for you

Yeah, but he didn't see the series. Only the movies. The movies are well...the ending. I guess Death & Rebirth has that recap, but I am still in awe that someone could watch EoE without the series.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 10:00 pm

Koopiskeva wrote:I think it's both.

Classic yet also overrated, and/or rather.. overhyped.

yes, your right, it's pretty good, i still have to watch it about another 30 times before i can start understanding what the hell is going on, but some people automaticaly assume that it's amazing and will hold that postition very stubbornly for some pretty stupid reasons. Like "my friends all think it's great, so it has to be the best".

I think NGE is a good series, and if your into psychology and philosophy, then this is a great series for you if your not into run-of-the-mill anime. well that was my 2 cents.

Laven Atries · Post by **Laven Atries** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 10:40 pm

Evangelion probably should be a classic. However, I despise most classical literature. This isn't to say I hate Eva, but I most enjoy things that get to the point without a lot of philosophical symbolism where you have to think for hours about what one little sentence meant. And for those of you who are thinking "I'll bet he just likes pure action shows like DBZ with no story whatsoever" well, yes I do like DBZ, but it's just something to see once because it's entertaining to see people beat the crap out of each other. The animes that I enjoy most have a nice story to them that does require paying attention, but it also remains simple enough that I can enjoy it fully while relaxing. After all, that's what anime is to me, something to enjoy while relaxing. That's why Cowboy Bebop is my favorite anime. It has a nice story where you get to think about what's going on, but not constantly. Filler episodes are necessary sometimes, especially in something as convoluted as Eva, but from what I remember, there wasn't much of that. If you wanted to get everything, you couldn't just sit back and enjoy the show. That's the biggest problem I think Eva had. It was worth watching for the most part, and it can probably be considered a classic, but it's not my favorite by a long ways.

-Laven Atries

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 12:28 am

Propyro wrote: yes, your right, it's pretty good, i still have to watch it about another 30 times before i can start understanding what the hell is going on, but some people automaticaly assume that it's amazing and will hold that postition very stubbornly for some pretty stupid reasons. Like "my friends all think it's great, so it has to be the best".

I love Eva, but I can totally agree with automatically saying it's awesome. To be honest, I'd say a lot of the fans of the show just say it's awesome because everyone else says so. However, it's happened before.

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:30 pm

AtomicWeezleman wrote:opinions are a wonderful thing, you can have one and no one can take it away from you because you are entitled to such, so heres mine.

It's not an opinion. The voice actor who played Shinji announced at more than one panel how much he hated the character of Shinji Ikari. Other voice actors from ADV have commented on how much he hated the character.

In my acting classes that I have taken, it has been said time and time again that if you don't like the character you are playing, then this inner attitude will do damage to your overall performance.

If you liked the dubbed Shinji, then yes, you have a right to your opinion to liking that particular performance, but don't confuse opinion with what I'm saying.

I'm pointing out that weather you liked the dub voice of Shinji or not, the performance results in the creation of the wrong kind of character and with a show like Evangelion, performance is more vital.

You said you liked DBZ in one of your posts. Imagine if the voice actor for Piccalo did his voice all high pitched and swishy. Even if he did a great performance of this voice, he would be damaging the character because Piccalo is supposed to be a macho character. (I hope that's a correct example, because I really don't know DBZ that well)

Likewise, Shinji is supposed to be a hurt and damaged character, but the dub voice makes him sound whiny and spoiled. This is a huge problem since this prevents the whole story of Evangelion from being able to get across the message it needs to.

If you're telling a story about one kind of character and the dub voice makes the character ANOTHER kind of character, you are damaging the story.

-Uncle Milo

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:45 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:In response to everything uncle Milo said. Alegory does NOT make anything good, it is simply a cheap way to hold a persons interest longer.

Wow... that one comment is supposed to cover EVERYTHING I said? You didn't even read my post then.

I didn't even know half of the Khaballa references when I SAW the show. I loved the show because of well written characters, discussions on complicated topics (mostly in psychology and philosophy) and the positive message I felt the series left us with.

WHERE DOES ALEGORY COME INTO THOSE TOPICS?

Answer: NOWHERE!

A lot of people make the mistake of assuming that the surface story of Evangelion is what's important... and it isn't really. It is merely the setting of the show. It is a set where we get to know our characters.

Look at Cowboy Bebop. It may be set in space, but the science fiction setting is NOT what the show is about... it adds a nice flavor to the show, but Cowboy Bebop is ALL ABOUT THE CHARACTERS.

As for the Khaballa stuff... that just makes the show more interesting and in the case of Evangelion, it shows how much work they put into making the show... since the research is very thorough.

Now... there have been some anime that makes use of alegory and does it well and the end result is a good title

and there have been titles that makes use of alegory and does it badly and in the end it usually is a sloppy title at best and a rotten title at worst.

None the less... I don't think that comment you made reflects anything. It was glib and uninformed and kind of insulting.

-Uncle Milo

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:55 pm

I saw it, it was very good, it had its bad moments, but overall I'd say it does deserve to be considered a classic.

My view.

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:07 pm

Laven Atries wrote:Evangelion probably should be a classic. However, I despise most classical literature. This isn't to say I hate Eva, but I most enjoy things that get to the point without a lot of philosophical symbolism where you have to think for hours about what one little sentence meant. And for those of you who are thinking "I'll bet he just likes pure action shows like DBZ with no story whatsoever" well, yes I do like DBZ, but it's just something to see once because it's entertaining to see people beat the crap out of each other. The animes that I enjoy most have a nice story to them that does require paying attention, but it also remains simple enough that I can enjoy it fully while relaxing. After all, that's what anime is to me, something to enjoy while relaxing. That's why Cowboy Bebop is my favorite anime. It has a nice story where you get to think about what's going on, but not constantly. Filler episodes are necessary sometimes, especially in something as convoluted as Eva, but from what I remember, there wasn't much of that. If you wanted to get everything, you couldn't just sit back and enjoy the show. That's the biggest problem I think Eva had. It was worth watching for the most part, and it can probably be considered a classic, but it's not my favorite by a long ways.

-Laven Atries

You know...

I like a lot of different kinds of anime

I like action titles, I like romance titles, and I like cute sugary titles.

However... I also like shows that make you think.

I would CERTAINLY NOT WANT ALL ANIME TITLES TO BE LIKE EVANGELION.

I love sitting back and watching something that is more of a popcorn title sometimes...

and then there are shows that have important messages that don't take any special route to tell them.

Cowboy Bebop combines action with some stories that have depth. It has great characters and the writing is top notch. We're given more than just action and adventure, but nothing that requires much more than understanding.

Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket does a wonderful job using the Gundam setting to talk about the truths and sadness of war. Again... well written and containing depth... but depth only to the point that all that is required is understanding.

Variety is very important...

and I would not want anime to consist of any one kind of show type.

I think a show that puts extra effort into itself is far more worthy of praise then other shows...

I mean... a show that is simply designed to pander to the audience may be very entertaining, but certainly not remarkable or inspiring.

So... once again let's move to opinion...

I can watch a piece of crap action movie here in the US and enjoy the hell out of it. I KNOW it's a bad movie, but I still enoyed it.

The fact it is a bad movie is not up for conjecture. It's a bad movie!
The fact I liked it is my opinion of the bad movie.

on the other hand

I can see a movie that I know is a quality movie and not like it at all.
I know it's a brilliantly made movie with first rate acting,
but I didn't happen to like it.

The fact is that it was a well made movie
my opinion is that I didn't like it.

I don't have any desire to FORCE people to like Evangelion... in fact, I would hate it if people liked Evangelion only because I told them to. Friends of mine who have seen the show and didn't like it... I just don't bring it up around them.

However, because I love the show and have had a real emotional connection to the messages it tells, I will defend the show against people who want to attack it.

Well... just wanted to say that.

-Uncle Milo