Anime or Animes [linguistic discussion]

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:10 pm

You get multiple 'rolling eyes' icons, it would seem, too.

Seriously though, I wonder how many people say 'anime' true to the Japanese pronounciation - probably not many... at least not the majority, anyway. But I guess phonetic change is better-tolerated by most than grammatic change

Kajino Rei · Post by **Kajino Rei** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:32 pm

You get multiple 'rolling eyes' icons, it would seem, too.

Indeed.

Seriously though, I wonder how many people say 'anime' true to the Japanese pronounciation - probably not many... at least not the majority, anyway. But I guess phonetic change is better-tolerated by most than grammatic change

Not many it would seem but nothing should excuse such behavior.
People just don't care anymore, not that many did before. It's incredible how so many people are too "lazy" to speak and write well.
The world is most definitely ending...

Grammaticaly/phoneticaly speaking of course.

Jnzk · Post by **Jnzk** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:39 pm

Otohiko wrote:Seriously though, I wonder how many people say 'anime' true to the Japanese pronounciation - probably not many...

I do... I think...

Isn't it just natural that words adopted from another language get changed in the process? Just think of the Engrish pronunciation by the Japanese.

YouTube · Post by **derobert** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:41 pm

Kajino Rei wrote:But it's not astonishing considering how many people actually care about languages in general and their integrity...

If we cared about lingual integrity, we'd call it "animes" when speaking English, and we'd spell the singular animay.

But we don't care; hence why English is so saturated with pointless exceptions.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:43 pm

Ironically, mr. Chomsky (the father of modern linguistics (also known as Chomskian linguistics) and famous political commentator) says the opposite; language is undergoing a natural process of change, while the political/social world is going nuts and is killing itself.

But of course, Chomskian linguists (there's no other kinds I know of) are just a bunch of 'descriptive grammar' hippies, and are all incredibly lazy and indecisive. You'll never get a straight answer from them about the 'right', prescriptive kind of grammar - myself included. That's because we don't know all the answers/solutions/repercussions ourselves.

But yea, people are lazy, except that's not really new

***

GAH! I feel my inner linguist choking the last breath out of this thread again ~_~

Kajino Rei · Post by **Kajino Rei** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:51 pm

derobert

If we cared about lingual integrity, we'd call it "animes" when speaking English, and we'd spell the singular animay.

Is that sarcasm? Because from a linguistic POV that's not exactly correct.

But we don't care; hence why English is so saturated with pointless exceptions.

Yes, it is.
Otohiko

GAH! I feel my inner linguist choking the last breath out of this thread again ~_~

Aww, it isn't. Only the stupid get choked.

Janzki

Isn't it just natural that words adopted from another language get changed in the process? Just think of the Engrish pronunciation by the Japanese.

"Engrish" is a term used in the US, by people of the US; it holds not linguistic base at all in a academic POV.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:55 pm

^(my previous post responding to Kajino Rei, just so you know)

Janzki wrote: I do... I think...

Yea, but you have the advantage of knowing multiple phonetic systems very well - which probably means you don't try to adapt new sounds as much as a primarily-English speaker would.

Same with me, really, probably for a similar reason.

Derobert wrote:If we cared about lingual integrity, we'd call it "animes" when speaking English, and we'd spell the singular animay.

But we don't care; hence why English is so saturated with pointless exceptions.

English is just tricky. How you read/say/derive forms of many common words in English actually depends on their historical origin (most standard English words come from Old English, Old French, Modern French, Latin and Greek). Where the problem comes in is when you get a word from some other language - people usually try to stick it into one of those patterns, as if those words came from one of those 5 main sources. Except it doesn't always work, and it's especially troublesome when different people assume it to go with different patterns.

That's why it seems non-native speakers of English have so much trouble with common english words, but usually have less trouble pronouncing some of the newly-borrowed words. Because they don't have that weird little system built in.

That's my take on it, anyway

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:56 pm

Janzki wrote:
Otohiko wrote:Seriously though, I wonder how many people say 'anime' true to the Japanese pronounciation - probably not many...
I do... I think...

Isn't it just natural that words adopted from another language get changed in the process? Just think of the Engrish pronunciation by the Japanese.

The thing is, English isn't like Japanese. In English we can produce an extreme variety of sounds, whereas the Japanese Language is set-up in a more structured way. Due to English's lack of structure, it would be simple as pie to have "anime" be pronounced the same way that it is done in Japanese.

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:00 pm

Otohiko wrote:
Kajino Rei wrote:In the end:

ANIME

...but in the end, it doesn't even matter...

(but seriously, there's so many people calling it 'animes' it's not even funny. Which isn't all that surprising, given most english speakers naturally incline to treat it as an english word.)

But it is an english word. In Japanese, the word anime (pronounced correctly as the Japanese do) is a word for any animation. From commercails to Disney to Evangelion and anywhere else animation goes. However, in America, the word anime means animation from Japan, or animation that is Japanese. The meaning is different, so the word is changed. Like in Japanese, "noto" doesn't quite mean "note" as it would in English.

That doesn't mean people should pronounce it one way or another, but it has become an English word like the countless other words that came from other languages and ended up in English.

Kajino Rei · Post by **Kajino Rei** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:02 pm

That's why it seems non-native speakers of English have so much trouble with common english words, but usually have less trouble pronouncing some of the newly-borrowed words. Because they don't have that weird little system built in.

You know, I never saw it that way. But guess I'm different since I have more than one language as my primary (English included). It’s easier for some people to learn new languages well, I guess.

Forgot French though.