EVA Ending (MAJOR SPOILER WARNING)

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:09 am

Eva was pretty much the cause of his late 90s dispair... well, that and the industry in general being assholes.

The last thing he made that I've seen was Ryusei Kacho and if that's anything to go by then I think his days of depression are long gone

B3 · Post by B3 » Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:14 pm

I think I can agree with everyone when we say that EoE was not needed. But I will admit though that I did like EoE very much. And I find it funny how EoE was Anno's way of saying "Fuck you all!" You go Anno!

Metro · Post by **Metro** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:42 pm

bah! if you think the ending to EoE was messed up, you should read the alternate endings to the film

Last A

You already know the beginning of this one (a beach, petrified headless Evas, etc).
Then, we see the graves Shinji made (it's stated by Anno it was _he_ who made them). The names of all main Eva characters are written on them, except for "Ayanami Rei".

We then see Asuka's grave.
And Asuka's foot kicking it to the ground. ^^;
(you can still see these graves in the actual ending... no names, but there is Misato's pendant nailed on one of them, and an other has been kicked down ^^ )

We then see Shinji and Asuka on the beach... and you know that scene, too (but this draft demonstrates that Shinji and Asuka didn't just wake up there after Third Impact... they've been living here for some times... meaning they _could_ be the two only humans willing to return, after all... ^^; )

When Shinji starts crying, Asuka was supposed to say something like "Idiot. No way I'll let you kill me" ("idiot" was removed in the storyboards... and the whole line was modified, eventually).

Then, the ending music (so, there was one... ^^ ) was supposed to begin, and the staff credits were to appear (Anno suggests a horizontal scrolling, like in GunBuster, I guess).

We were to see Eva-01 lying on the Moon, and woman's hair showing from its broken mask (but her face remains unseen).
Behind Eva-01, you could see Earth, entirely red.
And the Black Moon, destroyed.
The camera goes to the sun, then to the stars.

Credits end.

"Shûgeki" ("the end").

Last B

It begins like the previous one, but Asuka doesn't show up in the "graves scene".

We then see Shinji lying on the beach.
His right hand is holding a white one.

"I'll never see them again."
"It's better to think of it this way."
"I'm still alive, so I'll keep on living."

He squeezes the hand harder.
Then, he sees Rei (like in the actual episode and Last A).
We eventually see that there is nobody lying near Shinji. Just a white arm without the rest of the body.

The camera then shows the full moon.
The ending credits are the same as in Last A.

Jebadia · Post by **Jebadia** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:40 pm

if they actually animated these endings, maybe we'll see them someday?

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:44 pm

As many have already said, the movie (the End of Evangelion) was made in response to the (literally) thousands of hate-mails (even death threats, they are even flashed throughout the movie) Hideak Anno (the creator and director) received for having such an ambiguous (I don't think it is) ending. He was pretty much forced to make a story that told the viewer HOW things happened, which (IMO) is not important.

Hell, the last line "Kimochi warui" (I feel sick/bad) has been debated that that is Anno speaking to the viewer. It's also why the movie is a bit...what's the word...fucked up. It does answer questions as to how things happened, but at the same time is pretty messed up.

Regardless, with all that said, I think a lot of you are missing the point of Evangelion (as Milo has alluded).

At the surface, Evangelion is just another cool mecha show where Humans are defending themselves from Angels and forcibly trying to evolve (third impact...where we became that goo...lost our AT fields...we are happy).

However, the true meaning and purpose of Evangelion is simply about Shinji. Him finding self-worth and his triumph over his problems...that's it! That is the main reason Episodes 25 and 26 had no real plot points and were just "soul searching."

And no, I'm not forgetting about Asuka, Misato and so on. Basically, as shown in Episode 25, everyone is going through this soul-searching. Basically...all humans hurt each other with our AT fields and are "missing" something...we all have problems yes? Basically the characters in Evangelion (IMO) are just exaggerations of traits we all possess. Each of us can be arrogant and looking for acceptance (like Asuka) or feel we have no self-worth and defined by what others think(like Shinji) and so on. So yeah...the show is ultimately about us.

The ending, I find quite uplifting and powerful...Shinji finally figures out who he is and in the end...it doesn't matter how we got to that point since the story is just a vehicle to tell the story about this boy and his problems and eventual victory. Regardless, they are probably the two most important episodes in the entire series.

So yeah, I agree in that I like Episode 25/26 quite a bit since it is a culmination of what the entire show it about and really brings things to a good conclusion (the important parts). At the same time, I like the movie since it covers the "plot" points like Instrumentality and Shinji deciding mankind's fate.

Since many of you are probably confused about the plot points, let me try and sum things up as quickly as possible (I kind of hate typing this up...I think I already have at least 3 times).

As stated, humans are fending off angels. IMO I think they are true Angels sent from God, but it doesn't matter if they are. Anyway...the angels are trying to re-unite with Adam which will cause 3rd Impact. We are just fending for ourselves (or so we are led to believe) since 3rd Impact will destroy us (basically whoever "wins" is the species that gets to "evolve" to the next level or something along those lines).

That's the majority of the TV episodes and after defeating the 17th Angel...SEELE wants to initiate third impact. As stated, we are first led to bleieve that third impact is bad, but in fact, if we initiate it, we also will evolve to the next level...this basically equates to us losing our AT fields and idealy leads to happiness. This is covered in the "Dead Sea Scrolls." This is why we had to defeat the other Angels...so we could initiate Instrumentality.

Basically the AT field is why we hurt each other and why we can't truly be close and open with each other (The Hedgehog's Dilemna). To destroy the AT field would equate to all of us being happy. That's where we burst into LCL..our base form..and are all happy in our "perfect" little worlds...this is seen in Episode 26 where Shinji rejects his perfect world. I believe everyone is in their own ideal world since there are no AT fields.

Anyway...Gendo refuses and tries to initiate third impact himself. Basically...Gendo is an asshole...make no mistake. He just wants to see his wife and is being selfish. Regardless, Rei rejects him and Shinji becomes the center of Instrumentality instead of Gendo. This is the messed-up parts in Eva where all of us burst and so on.

I may not have stated it, but basically Episodes 25/26 and the movie are really going on in parallel and are...for the important parts...the same thing. EoE just tells us how we got to this point. Anyway...now that everyone has no AT field, basically all of us are going through this self-searching (as seen in Episode 25/26...they even mention that all of us are going through this, but they only have time to show Shinji). So IDEALLY, everyone comes to the same conclusion as Shinji and discovers their self-worth.

Anyway...Shinji eventually rejects this perfect world and realizes who he is and so on...this is where the glass breaks in Episode 26...this is also the part in EoE where Eva01 bursts out of Rei's eye (So again, Episode 25/26 is the same as EoE...one just shows how we get to this point). Shinji basically rejected Instrumentality and thus comes back to earth..where he comes out of the ocean. Shinji basically chose to come back to earth with a physical form and more importantly...WITH an AT field.

Now that he realizes who he is and his self-worth, he chooses to *try* and live life with the knowledge he has gained about himself. In theory, if all of us realized these things, we could be happy together...so in theory perhaps Third Impact and this Evolution was not living in Perfect worlds (while LCL), but rather us discovering ourselves (which could be called "evolution)...hmmm....

At the same time, Shinji also allows all of us the choice to come back or not. As I said, he was in charge of instrumentality and thus, all of us are going through the same decision and *CAN* come back if we want to. He gives us the choice. Again, IDEALY, people will discover themselves AND come back.

As for Asuka, I do in fact believe Asuka died in EoE and the reason she is back is the same reason why Shinji is back. As I said (and was shown in Episode 25), everyone is going through this and it's easy to assume Asuka came to the same conclusion. Regardless of if she died or not...she would still have burst into LCL like every other human on Earth...so no matter what she is going through Instrumentality (as seen in Episode 25)

Another theory is that Shinji chose her to come back...he was in charge after all...since he loves her (I can already see the Black Monarch coming in here with some stupid comment). Regardless...as I mentioned before...these plot points don't really matter...so I guess I shouldn't have mentioned it.

In any case, that's a quick summary of what happens in Evangelion that most people seem to be confused about. I won't lie in that it can be confusing and the only reason I know this is because I've seen the show many times and well...I hate to be mean, but IT IS all in there. They pretty much say these things in the movie and last two episodes.

So, hopefully that clears up the plot points and more importantly clears up that well...Evangelion isn't about that. It's a cool mecha show, but that's not the reason it's one of my favorite shows. Evangelion is an uplifting and deep tale and I find that the reason why I like it so much.

Interesting tidbits:
-Keel, the head of SEELE is rumored to be the man who spit on Christ before the crucifixion. Right after Keel turns into LCL (right after he says "all is good"), we see that his spine is metallic. This implies that he has lived a very long time. Basically, in mythology (NOT fact and NOT Biblical), the man who spat on Christ is cursed to live until the end of the world. This would easily explain why Keel would want to end the world and return to LCL since he well..has lived for over 2,000 years. Pretty cool that Anno added little things like this in.

-The Sephiroth: This is the symbol shown many times throughout the series (also at the end). This is basically the characteristics of God...things that human beings can never fully understand like Compassion, Wisdom, etc. It's been argued the Evangelion is just about Shinji's path toward becoming a God. Basically throughout the show, he shows these characteristics of God and at the end, he literally becomes one since he decides the fate of man. Again...just interesting little things and no real fact behind it. Everything I stated before these tidbits is what happens and has some evidence (from the show....b/c they are said). And again...this isn't really what's important...I just find it interesting.

Hmm...I think that's it...I hope this clears things up.

/me can already see the retort coming from the Black Monarch :groan:

One quick disclaimer: If you hate Evangelion and so on and have some stupid comment to say, I do ask politely that you don't. This is obviously an Evangelion thread for Evangelion fans to discuss things. I was kind enough not to post in the "Dubs" thread at the request of Omnistrata and thus ask the same courtesy be shown.

the Black Monarch · Post by **the Black Monarch** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:25 pm

Why the movie is better than the TV ending:

The TV ending just rehashed all the good stuff from the first 24 episodes. There was nothing new. It also left the story arc unfinished and failed to explain a lot of the stuff that the viewers deserved to know more about. The movie ending actually continued the development of the characters instead of treading old ground, and it closed the story arc. On top of that, it had a lot of the internal emotional stuff that defined the TV ending, except that it's new information (young Shinji in the sandbox, for example). In short, there's stuff in the movie that's not in the TV ending, but there's nothing in the TV ending that EOE lacks.

For the record, though, I don't really like either ending. If I could change the ending, I'd make it like EOE up until the point where Ritsuko and Gendo are pointing guns at each other. From there, I'd have Gendo end up with a bullet in the chest instead of Ritsuko, and the characters could get over their problems in the real world instead of taking acid. All the emotion, none of the nonsensical hallucinations or need for Prozac.

AtomicWeezleman · Post by **AtomicWeezleman** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:27 pm

the Black Monarch wrote:Why the movie is better than the TV ending:

The TV ending just rehashed all the good stuff from the first 24 episodes. There was nothing new. It also left the story arc unfinished and failed to explain a lot of the stuff that the viewers deserved to know more about. The movie ending actually continued the development of the characters instead of treading old ground, and it closed the story arc. On top of that, it had a lot of the internal emotional stuff that defined the TV ending, except that it's new information (young Shinji in the sandbox, for example). In short, there's stuff in the movie that's not in the TV ending, but there's nothing in the TV ending that EOE lacks.

For the record, though, I don't really like either ending. If I could change the ending, I'd make it like EOE up until the point where Ritsuko and Gendo are pointing guns at each other. From there, I'd have Gendo end up with a bullet in the chest instead of Ritsuko, and the characters could get over their problems in the real world instead of taking acid. All the emotion, none of the nonsensical hallucinations or need for Prozac.

Disagree there old chumy, EOE lacks a happy, uplifting ending, the TV ending does not!

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:30 pm

AtomicWeezleman wrote:
the Black Monarch wrote:Why the movie is better than the TV ending:

The TV ending just rehashed all the good stuff from the first 24 episodes. There was nothing new. It also left the story arc unfinished and failed to explain a lot of the stuff that the viewers deserved to know more about. The movie ending actually continued the development of the characters instead of treading old ground, and it closed the story arc. On top of that, it had a lot of the internal emotional stuff that defined the TV ending, except that it's new information (young Shinji in the sandbox, for example). In short, there's stuff in the movie that's not in the TV ending, but there's nothing in the TV ending that EOE lacks.

For the record, though, I don't really like either ending. If I could change the ending, I'd make it like EOE up until the point where Ritsuko and Gendo are pointing guns at each other. From there, I'd have Gendo end up with a bullet in the chest instead of Ritsuko, and the characters could get over their problems in the real world instead of taking acid. All the emotion, none of the nonsensical hallucinations or need for Prozac.
Disagree there old chumy, EOE lacks a happy, uplifting ending, the TV ending does not!

Although I disagree with him as well, I also disagree with you *slightly*. The movie ending may appear dark and dreary (the world has ended and all), but at the heart of both...Shinji still discovers himself and comes back the world with his AT field and this knowledge...more importantly, he comes back to live his life.

So again, in essence, both endings are the same thing. One just ends with him figuring it out (the breaking of the glass) and one actually shows him come back.

AtomicWeezleman · Post by **AtomicWeezleman** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:39 pm

dwchang wrote:
AtomicWeezleman wrote:
the Black Monarch wrote:Why the movie is better than the TV ending:

The TV ending just rehashed all the good stuff from the first 24 episodes. There was nothing new. It also left the story arc unfinished and failed to explain a lot of the stuff that the viewers deserved to know more about. The movie ending actually continued the development of the characters instead of treading old ground, and it closed the story arc. On top of that, it had a lot of the internal emotional stuff that defined the TV ending, except that it's new information (young Shinji in the sandbox, for example). In short, there's stuff in the movie that's not in the TV ending, but there's nothing in the TV ending that EOE lacks.

For the record, though, I don't really like either ending. If I could change the ending, I'd make it like EOE up until the point where Ritsuko and Gendo are pointing guns at each other. From there, I'd have Gendo end up with a bullet in the chest instead of Ritsuko, and the characters could get over their problems in the real world instead of taking acid. All the emotion, none of the nonsensical hallucinations or need for Prozac.
Disagree there old chumy, EOE lacks a happy, uplifting ending, the TV ending does not!
Although I disagree with him as well, I also disagree with you *slightly*. The movie ending may appear dark and dreary (the world has ended and all), but at the heart of both...Shinji still discovers himself and comes back the world with his AT field and this knowledge...more importantly, he comes back to live his life.

So again, in essence, both endings are the same thing. One just ends with him figuring it out (the breaking of the glass) and one actually shows him come back.

Hmmm, just had a really amazing thought..........(dum dum DUM!) what if we spliced parts of episode 26 into EOE (the cracking of the glass) as he sorts himself out in the film.............

And seing as how you believe both films to have the same meaning (message), well, its juist a matter of perspective...........(The world hangs on perspective)

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:44 pm

AtomicWeezleman wrote:Hmmm, just had a really amazing thought..........(dum dum DUM!) what if we spliced parts of episode 26 into EOE (the cracking of the glass) as he sorts himself out in the film.............

And seing as how you believe both films to have the same meaning (message), well, its juist a matter of perspective...........(The world hangs on perspective)

Well y'see, that's why I watch both...one tells the plot...comes to a certain part which is episode 25/26 (could replace within the movie) and then continue on with the plot (after he shatters the class/pops out of Rei's eye). So in terms of *OVERALL* plot and meaning, yeah you could do that...but again, I can't emphasize enough that the episodes (IMO) have the most substance and "meaning."