Alucard_FoN wrote:I'm not saying it isn't. I'm just saying it's not at all the same as stealing a car.
Yes, but it's a different form of stealing than just walking into a car dealership, hotwiring a ferrari, and driving away in it. In that kind of stealing, the car dealership has lost something physical that they could have sold to another person. In the other case they've just had the design of the car stolen.
I think you're missing my point. My point is that you're still stealing regardless of if it's physical or "data."
Alucard_FoN wrote:Actually, this is debatable. By this logic it should be illegal to record a movie off the TV onto video cassettes, which is in no way illegal. The argument on whether recording data from something else without paying is or isn't stealing is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.
You think wrong. Going back to the video cassette thing, when VCR's first came out, there was a huge lawsuit against the makers of the VCR's. And guess what, the VCR companies won.
I see the point with TV shows, but at the same time one can be prosecuted another can't. I agree that Hollywood was scared shitless about VCRs and had to adapt to technology. This is another argument since I (as much as you may not believe it from this thread) believe companies should evolve with technology and adapt to use it. Take mp3s for example, I think they're never gonna win this and need to figure out a way to make money from it just like how Hollywood now uses Movie Rentals...regardless within this regarded I still say one is illegal and one isn't. You CAN get arrested for one. Just read that "FBI warning" or whatever.
Alucard_FoN wrote:Both. You are paying for the data, the disc, the work it takes to burn the data onto the disk, the cost of shipping the disc to the store, as well as whatever extras come with the disc... The box, booklets, etc.
Again...missing the point. I'm saying that you pay for the data among other things. Sorry if it was ambiguous, but my point was that you copying the data on YOUR own DVD-R doesn't make it not stealing since you're not paying for the data. Then again you didn't entirely say that, but I was just taking a stab since I thought it might come up...i.e. data is free.
Alucard_FoN wrote:Wrong again. Stealing food from a store makes the store lose money because they have lost food that they would have sold to someone else, not to mention the money they paid to have the food shipped to them. The only way you can compare anime and food is if you could go into a supermarket and make exact copies of the food and take the copies home.
No, regardless the distribution company IS losing money. As much as you say you're not willing to buy something and thus they aren't losing money...you are at least willing to watch it. I know this sounds a bit weird, but you should be PAYING to watch. You don't just go to the movies and say "well I didn't really wanna see this and since you wouldn't have made that money, I'm just gonna go in and watch it. Nobodies losing money." This is almost the same. The DVD is like a "ticket" and you should pay the price for that data/images, etc. The problem we're having is that you are caught up in this physical and that they aren't losing their EXACT copy. I guess that would be if you shoplifted which I hope you don't try and defend. Regardless of shoplifting or not, if you were take a legitimate version and copy it, you are still STEALING the data that is encoded on that disc. Data that they OWN and are SELLING to you.
Alucard_FoN wrote:In some cases I would agree...
Some cases? I don't understand how hard it is to see that they PAID for the rights to SELL and DISTRIBUTE a DVD. When you bypass them, you bypass that WRITTEN contract that they have and are STEALING. It's pretty simple IMO.
Alucard_FoN wrote:But not always. When I download anime it is NOT money that they should be making, as you say, because they wouldn't make it regardless of whether I downloaded it, didn't download it, or even knew it existed. This is why the argument on whether or not things like that is stealing is debatable. For the moment I think it's technically illegal, but the debate rages on.
Technically illegal = illegal. I don't think there is any reason to argue if this fundamental statement is true. I'd like to see you argue to a judge using this exact same argument and see what he says...esp. about something as trivial as DVDs. And as for the law, it's not debateable. If it is, bring me up some court case where the company lost. There is that warning again and it has held up in court. If you have the balls, turn yourself in and see if you can get away with it.
Alucard_FoN wrote:Agreed, breaking the law IS breaking the law. But in this case it's still in the courts about whether or not it should be breaking the law.
As I said, the courts have already ruled on this. If you agree that it's breaking the law, why are you debating this? I honestly think it's people just rationalizing it.
Alucard_FoN wrote:And their work is highly appreciated, but if people can't afford 30 bucks a DVD, they can't afford it, plain as that, no matter how much someone appreciates the work they've put into it, it won't make money materialize in their pocket.
If you can't afford it, don't buy or watch it. I can't afford to go see the moon, does that mean I have any right to go up since that's money they wouldn't have made anyway? No. They still put money into it and deserve to get it back. I know the analogy is flawed since with the moon they'd put A LOT more money in, but with DVDs, they PAY for the license, packaging, encodes, DVD-Rs, marketing, etc. so that they can make money.
Alucard_FoN wrote:For now people just have to agree to disagree. If you think it's morally wrong, that's fine, but I hope to god you don't have any illegal mp3's on your computer, because even one small mp3 that you don't actually own the rights to makes you a hypocrite. And that's where I have a real problem with a lot of the people who complain about downloading anime, pirating games, etc. Oftentimes I'll see people who I know, because they have said so in the past, have hundred's of mp3's talking about how "pirating games is so wrong!" That kind of hypocrisy annoys the hell out of me.
For once I agree. I will be the first to admit that YES I do have some mp3s on my computer, but by the same token I am buying CDs in an attempt to become legit. I guess until then I can't say that much.
I guess what people are missing is that I was a poor college student and also rationalized things like yourselves. However, I am now working in the industry and make money. Since I do that, I have decided to become a responsible consumer.
As for games and anime...yes I DO BUY all of them. In fact, when a friend wants a burn (I have a DVD+/-RW), I say no. I don't have as big of a problem with the act itself since, as many know, it usually doesn't effect things or won't get caught. At the same time it annoys me that people aren't willing to admit that they are stealing. I also think that once you DO make money (and not even being rich), you should become a responsible consumer and support the things you enjoy. By no means does this mean "I need to make 100,000 before I start buying Anime. I make a lot less than that, but buying a couple DVDs doesn't kill me. If I want it, I buy it.
I'd hate it if people screwed me over and stole a bunch of Athlons. I guess what I'm getting at is that I understand how things are (that obviously wasn't apparent), but at the very least people need to understand what they are doing and HOPEFULLY when the time (money) comes they can reform and help out. That's the whole reason for my "preaching."
In any case, I'd understand if you totally disregard the whole argument since at one time I did the same thing...well..not with anime or games, but with music...it doesn't make the statements any more right or wrong though...the law is the law.
. I HIGHLY suggest (if you didn't already know) seeing the entire show. It's AWESOME 
