Last Kenshin OAV Question [SPOILERS]

MistyCaldwell · Post by **MistyCaldwell** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:50 am

The disease could have been a number of things but TB is most likely the case. You had Kenshin who traveled for years near the end of his life along with an influx of Europeans who would bring diseases that Japanese would have little to no immunity from, the older ones especially. TB is a skin disease. Medicine was not as advanced even though the end of the Kenshin story is late 19th century.

Lepers are highly contagious, I doubt Kaoru would have been allowed to walk around or have many visitors if that was the case. An STD makes sense, given the method of contraction but I don't know of any that causes infections on the limbs and that way on the skin. TB was also a disease that did have somewhat of a go in Japan about that time.

And even though many people don't like the ending of Seisouhen, I thought it was beautiful as well. I cried...couldn't help it...You know that Kenshin was going to die someday, it was nice to see his scar disapear and he was 'forgiven' by himself or at least able to move on...before he died. It would have been better if Kenji wasn't so sad though....but any child they had would have lived until about 1950 or later so trouble times weren't exactly over.

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:42 am

I also agree that the Seisouhen ending was poignant and beautiful. Like dwchang (who will inevitabley eventually voice his support of the manga ending), I respect and appreciate the origianl ending, but I like this one too. They are both very good.

As for the disease... all I remember on this is that they make a point of how Kenshin has pushed his body beyond his natural limits, weakening his natural defences in the process. I think that he either has TB or 'Mysterious Disease X', which is often used by writers in many genres who do not wish to classify a particular condition, but instead wish to focus on the tragedy of the passing of the character.

***SPOILERS FOR FIGURE 17***

eg, Aizawa Shou.

***END FIGURE 17 SPOILERS***

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject.

generalhs · Post by **generalhs** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:00 am

In the Japanese version, they refer to a term that means TB.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:15 pm

TokyoU15 wrote:
And the end was so sad. They just made those episodes to kill him!!!
If it helps any, that's not the REAL ending...the REAL ending is...well, read the manga ^_^
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Even though most hardcore manga kenshin fans hate this conclusion, I found it to be beautiful and full of sorrow. It's a great piece of mature anime.

You're right, I *do* hate the ending of the OVA. Call me a purist, but well..that's what I am. I hate it when things are done differently than that of the creator's intentions (which is the main reason I dislike dubs).

If you'd like to know the true ending, feel free to PM me. It's the complete opposite of this (crappy) ending and is happy and open-ended.

Savia wrote:I also agree that the Seisouhen ending was poignant and beautiful. Like dwchang (who will inevitabley eventually voice his support of the manga ending), I respect and appreciate the origianl ending, but I like this one too. They are both very good.

Can't disappoint you guys eh?

Although I can see why people find the ending beautiful, it doesn't mean I like it. When one *knows* what the true ending is and then sees the complete opposite, all one can do is become angry.

At the same time, I do wanna ask, what was so beautiful? It was 1 hour and they didn't develop...anything. I might also add that half of it was just recapping the series and (very quickly) his fight with Enishi. The actual drama part was maybe 30 minutes and that's hardly "beautiful" to me, but to each his own.

generalhs · Post by **generalhs** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:08 pm

I thought they were doing/did an OVA with the manga ending?

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 7:07 am

generalhs wrote:I thought they were doing/did an OVA with the manga ending?

Nope. Watsuki has been unhappy with the animators for a while now, hence he is reticient about letting them do it. Also, Seisouhen specifically states that it is the last Kenshin product.

And dwchang: I found the ending to be beautiful in a sad, emotional sense because of what I'd seen Kenshin through in the TV series, and the decline of him throughout the OVA. I think him constantly trying to push himself to do more for others even though it was destroying him slowly fitted with some of his character. Finally, the touch of his scar fading at the last was really poignant in my mind. That said, I still like the manga ending also.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:56 pm

generalhs wrote:I thought they were doing/did an OVA with the manga ending?

Nope. The last OVA "Rememberance" is not at all tied to the creator (Watsuki). Let me try and explain (Warning: Long):

To understand the situation, one must first understand how manga and anime are related. Most anime shows are adapted from manga. Some are animated WHILE the manga is still coming out. Because of this, two options exist:

1) Make up random filler that is not in the manga while waiting for the next manga book.
2) Make the episodes longer with non-sense while waiting for the next book to animate. This is what DBZ did and why they charge up for so many episodes. In fact, the DBZ manga I read as a child is quite enjoyable and not that long.

Sony went with Option 1 and that's why there is a lot of (IMO) bad episodes between Episodes 12 - 24 (whenever the Sano rematch it). They were made by Sony and not part of the manga (Except for Raijuta). And anyone who thinks the sumo wrestling episode is good should be smacked.

After the Kyoto Arc (all in the manga), Sony awaited the next manga volume and continued to make (at best) mediocre episodes. The creator saw the direction Sony was going and was pissed off. Actually, I take that back, IIRC the creator wanted to wait since the next manga volume takes place literally after the Kyoto arc (ever wonder why Kenshin visits that grave in Episode 62? In the manga it makes sense).

Either way, the creator was pissed off. Sony continued to milk the product (like any good company) and created more and more crappitude in the form of bad Kenshin episodes having nothing to do with the real manga story (Episodes 63 - 95) and not developing the characters or having any significant stories (the German Knights? Lame. The Armpit people? Lame.)

The creator and Sony finally compromised and made the first OVA (which is based on the manga volumes after Kyoto, the ones the creator wanted Sony to wait on) that would show the viewer Kenshin's past and how he got the two scars. I'm guessing the creator thought the viewer deserved to know that much. In fact, the OVA takes place right after the Kyoto Arc (well a little bit after..it's a flashback and explains the intentions of the next villain, Enishi).

The last OVA was made by Sony alone. There is no tie to the manga and original creator. Since I am a purist and well..it makes sense, I do not consider the last OVA part of Kenshin at all and if anything sort of like a fanfic.

The manga ending takes place a year or two after Enishi and is quite open-ended and happy. It also makes sense with the direction the show is going and what it is about. The ending in the 2nd OVA doesn't fit the nature of the show and the theme in it.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:03 pm

Savia wrote:And dwchang: I found the ending to be beautiful in a sad, emotional sense because of what I'd seen Kenshin through in the TV series, and the decline of him throughout the OVA. I think him constantly trying to push himself to do more for others even though it was destroying him slowly fitted with some of his character. Finally, the touch of his scar fading at the last was really poignant in my mind. That said, I still like the manga ending also.

Well I somewhat agree. I mean, yes you're right that he pushes himself and so on to protect his friends, but the theme of the show is forgiveness, protecting the ones you love and the will to live (as demonstrated in the fight with Shishio and his succession technique). His will to live is stronger than any force and blah blah blah.

Having him die sort of...defeats that and to me was pointless. Yeah sure it shows how hard he tried, but according to the final attack and the mentality you're supposed to have, you should still take care of yourself and well...live. At the same time, he didn't have to die to "drive in the point." It was done fine with the manga ending and I still don't understand why Sony and him can't come to an agreement on a 4th season or something.

At the same time, although I agree that the scar fading is touching, in the manga it also starts to fade as well. The viewer can extrapolate that it will be gone in time. In fact, I think it fading is directly related to his mentality about the events. He doesn't blame himself anymore and Enishi has somewhat forgiven him.

It shows that at the end of the show, Kenshin has finally forgiven the one person he couldn't forgive for 29 manga volumes...himself.

Regardless, you're free to enjoy it just as I have my own guilty pleasures

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Savia · Post by **Savia** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:28 am

dwchang wrote:
Savia wrote:And dwchang: I found the ending to be beautiful in a sad, emotional sense because of what I'd seen Kenshin through in the TV series, and the decline of him throughout the OVA. I think him constantly trying to push himself to do more for others even though it was destroying him slowly fitted with some of his character. Finally, the touch of his scar fading at the last was really poignant in my mind. That said, I still like the manga ending also.
Well I somewhat agree. I mean, yes you're right that he pushes himself and so on to protect his friends, but the theme of the show is forgiveness, protecting the ones you love and the will to live (as demonstrated in the fight with Shishio and his succession technique). His will to live is stronger than any force and blah blah blah.

Having him die sort of...defeats that and to me was pointless. Yeah sure it shows how hard he tried, but according to the final attack and the mentality you're supposed to have, you should still take care of yourself and well...live. At the same time, he didn't have to die to "drive in the point." It was done fine with the manga ending and I still don't understand why Sony and him can't come to an agreement on a 4th season or something.

Well, he has to die sometime, and I guess that I just like tragedy too much to think of a happier ending :p

dwchang wrote: the same time, although I agree that the scar fading is touching, in the manga it also starts to fade as well. The viewer can extrapolate that it will be gone in time. In fact, I think it fading is directly related to his mentality about the events. He doesn't blame himself anymore and Enishi has somewhat forgiven him.

It shows that at the end of the show, Kenshin has finally forgiven the one person he couldn't forgive for 29 manga volumes...himself.

Again, true. Kenshin never felt that he had done enough for the people around him, no matter how much he gave, which is why I felt that the Seisouhen ending began to feel right. I'm in a state of flux with my opinion- whenever anyone takes one side, I kinda automatically take the other

dwchang wrote:Regardless, you're free to enjoy it just as I have my own guilty pleasures .

You mean like last night?

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:30 am

El version fixed:

dwchang wrote:
Savia wrote:And dwchang: I found the ending to be beautiful in a sad, emotional sense because of what I'd seen Kenshin through in the TV series, and the decline of him throughout the OVA. I think him constantly trying to push himself to do more for others even though it was destroying him slowly fitted with some of his character. Finally, the touch of his scar fading at the last was really poignant in my mind. That said, I still like the manga ending also.
Well I somewhat agree. I mean, yes you're right that he pushes himself and so on to protect his friends, but the theme of the show is forgiveness, protecting the ones you love and the will to live (as demonstrated in the fight with Shishio and his succession technique). His will to live is stronger than any force and blah blah blah.

Having him die sort of...defeats that and to me was pointless. Yeah sure it shows how hard he tried, but according to the final attack and the mentality you're supposed to have, you should still take care of yourself and well...live. At the same time, he didn't have to die to "drive in the point." It was done fine with the manga ending and I still don't understand why Sony and him can't come to an agreement on a 4th season or something.

Well, he has to die sometime, and I guess that I just like tragedy too much to think of a happier ending :p

dwchang wrote: the same time, although I agree that the scar fading is touching, in the manga it also starts to fade as well. The viewer can extrapolate that it will be gone in time. In fact, I think it fading is directly related to his mentality about the events. He doesn't blame himself anymore and Enishi has somewhat forgiven him.

It shows that at the end of the show, Kenshin has finally forgiven the one person he couldn't forgive for 29 manga volumes...himself.

Again, true. Kenshin never felt that he had done enough for the people around him, no matter how much he gave, which is why I felt that the Seisouhen ending began to feel right. I'm in a state of flux with my opinion- whenever anyone takes one side, I kinda automatically take the other

dwchang wrote:Regardless, you're free to enjoy it just as I have my own guilty pleasures .

You mean like last night?