Question Concerning Sojiro

Satomi · Post by **Satomi** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:40 pm

dwchang wrote:
Satomi wrote:Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me.
Well it's not "fact" or anything. They don't necessarily say. It's just my two logical guesses so I didn't really answer anything j/k

Even though you were joking, you need to learn to just take the thanks and we done with it. Don't contradict something as simple as a "Thank You". Geez.

OmniStrata · Post by **OmniStrata** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:20 pm

Soujiro is Gawd-like...

I'm attesting to his skill with the sword and his character in general. I both have a deep respect and sympathy for him...

I mean, he's FASTER than Kenshin and he's got that un-nerving grin in under the most grim of situations...

Yep, Soujiro is DA MAN...

Shun · Post by **Shun** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:10 am

OmniStrata wrote:Soujiro is Gawd-like...

I'm attesting to his skill with the sword and his character in general. I both have a deep respect and sympathy for him...

I mean, he's FASTER than Kenshin and he's got that un-nerving grin in under the most grim of situations...

Yep, Soujiro is DA MAN...

Sojiro is faster then anything

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:46 am

Shun wrote:
OmniStrata wrote:Soujiro is Gawd-like...

I'm attesting to his skill with the sword and his character in general. I both have a deep respect and sympathy for him...

I mean, he's FASTER than Kenshin and he's got that un-nerving grin in under the most grim of situations...

Yep, Soujiro is DA MAN...

Sojiro is faster then anything

Not... quite... anything. Remember, the fight did actually end with the amakakeru ryu no hirameki defeating his own technique. It's quite clear from the symmetry of the fight that Kenshin and Soujirou are moving at the same speed at this time. Kenshin's move, however, has more power behind it.

I agree that Soujirou is very cool. I think that the creator must of almost consciously decided to make his exit like it was, so as to immortalise Soujirou in endless fan-fiction

And he likes cookies. When he brings that secret information to Shishio on the boxlid, it's cookies in that box. Don't try to tell me otherwise

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:31 am

Savia wrote:Not... quite... anything. Remember, the fight did actually end with the amakakeru ryu no hirameki defeating his own technique. It's quite clear from the symmetry of the fight that Kenshin and Soujirou are moving at the same speed at this time. Kenshin's move, however, has more power behind it.

I agree, but also disagree *slightly*. Basically, it's obvious that Kenshin *can* attain such speeds (as demonstated in his succession technique), but I don't think he is capable of maintaining this speed like Soujirou. Basically, I don't think he could run around like that attacking someone like Soujirou attacked him. Probably could only do it for his one move.

At the same time, it's also apparent that Kenshin can't see Soujirou during this attack which is why I *still* think Soujirou is a better fighter than Kenshin. Now I won't deny that Kenshin has the ultimate attack, but I still think Soujirou could've beaten him had he taken it more seriously (i.e. just done Shuku-Chi from the start and killed him as opposed to toying with him). It's quite apparent in the fight that Kenshin is overwhelmed. Even his "unblockable" Kuzu Ryu Sen couldn't beat Soujirou. In fact I believe the line was "Soujirou is faster than me. No...he's faster than Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu."

Then again, one could argue that that *is* why he's weaker (because he didn't finish him off). Regardless, just presenting another point of view since I'm a Soujirou fanboy.

Savia wrote:I agree that Soujirou is very cool. I think that the creator must of almost consciously decided to make his exit like it was, so as to immortalise Soujirou in endless fan-fiction

Actually, in the manga, the creator states (in the side notes) that Soujirou is one of his favorite characters. It might explain the reason he is such a good complement to Kenshin (other side of the coin) as well as his open-ended ending.

Savia · Post by **Savia** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:41 am

dwchang wrote:
Savia wrote:Not... quite... anything. Remember, the fight did actually end with the amakakeru ryu no hirameki defeating his own technique. It's quite clear from the symmetry of the fight that Kenshin and Soujirou are moving at the same speed at this time. Kenshin's move, however, has more power behind it.
I agree, but also disagree *slightly*. Basically, it's obvious that Kenshin *can* attain such speeds (as demonstated in his succession technique), but I don't think he is capable of maintaining this speed like Soujirou. Basically, I don't think he could run around like that attacking someone like Soujirou attacked him. Probably could only do it for his one move.

At the same time, it's also apparent that Kenshin can't see Soujirou during this attack which is why I *still* think Soujirou is a better fighter than Kenshin. Now I won't deny that Kenshin has the ultimate attack, but I still think Soujirou could've beaten him had he taken it more seriously (i.e. just done Shuku-Chi from the start and killed him as opposed to toying with him). It's quite apparent in the fight that Kenshin is overwhelmed. Even his "unblockable" Kuzu Ryu Sen couldn't beat Soujirou. In fact I believe the line was "Soujirou is faster than me. No...he's faster than Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu."

Then again, one could argue that that *is* why he's weaker (because he didn't finish him off). Regardless, just presenting another point of view since I'm a Soujirou fanboy.

Savia wrote:I agree that Soujirou is very cool. I think that the creator must of almost consciously decided to make his exit like it was, so as to immortalise Soujirou in endless fan-fiction
Actually, in the manga, the creator states (in the side notes) that Soujirou is one of his favorite characters. It might explain the reason he is such a good complement to Kenshin (other side of the coin) as well as his open-ended ending.

Well, I never said that Kenshin was as fast as Soujirou all the time. It's very clear that he isn't

I think that his lack of visible, surface emotion (other than mindless happiness) is generally just a character trait, but against the Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu, in combat, it is a double-edged sword. Although it makes Soujirou impossible to read and predict, he also has (as he states) no real motive for fighting other than loyalty to Shishio. He lacks the 'killer instinct' that might have made him finish the fight sooner; he really has no hatred or ill-will towards Kenshin (until the end, of course).

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:46 am

Savia wrote:I think that his lack of visible, surface emotion (other than mindless happiness) is generally just a character trait, but against the Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu, in combat, it is a double-edged sword. Although it makes Soujirou impossible to read and predict, he also has (as he states) no real motive for fighting other than loyalty to Shishio. He lacks the 'killer instinct' that might have made him finish the fight sooner; he really has no hatred or ill-will towards Kenshin (until the end, of course).

True. Good point.

At the same time, he still is a first-rate killer, but obviously for someone else's motives, not his own...which is what you are referring to as "killer-instinct."

Satomi · Post by **Satomi** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:28 pm

Wasn't it also stated that Soujiro is the fastest character in the show?

Shun · Post by **Shun** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:57 pm

Hmm, on that final attack(maybe this is just me) but it seemed that that was only comparing sojiros form of batoujitsu(sp?) to Kenshins in terms of speed. However, Sojiros speed can be used for any attack seeing as how it is a technique in itself. Which also from my point of view is after seeing sojiro move Kenshin stated "Soujirou is faster than me. No...he's faster than Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu." And yes i also believe that kenshin could of been dead within 30 seconds if sojiro hadnt dont the 3 steps shy, 2 steps shy, ect. and just performed the technique and finish it. Also another reason why kenshin stated he saw Sojiro as faster then him was because Sojiro had no feeling in which Kenshin could predict and act upon. This gave the illusion that Sojiro was even faster. Which may also be why after he broke down kenshin moved at the same speed during the final attack.

PS. I should probly go back and rewrite this because i realised as i wrote it i made a bunch of alsos and somewhat run on sentances

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:38 pm

Shun wrote:Hmm, on that final attack(maybe this is just me) but it seemed that that was only comparing sojiros form of batoujitsu(sp?) to Kenshins in terms of speed. However, Sojiros speed can be used for any attack seeing as how it is a technique in itself. Which also from my point of view is after seeing sojiro move Kenshin stated "Soujirou is faster than me. No...he's faster than Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu." And yes i also believe that kenshin could of been dead within 30 seconds if sojiro hadnt dont the 3 steps shy, 2 steps shy, ect. and just performed the technique and finish it. Also another reason why kenshin stated he saw Sojiro as faster then him was because Sojiro had no feeling in which Kenshin could predict and act upon. This gave the illusion that Sojiro was even faster. Which may also be why after he broke down kenshin moved at the same speed during the final attack.

PS. I should probly go back and rewrite this because i realised as i wrote it i made a bunch of alsos and somewhat run on sentances

You'd be correct in your conclusion. Basically Soujirou at his peak (no emotions and using Shuku-Chi) could kill Kenshin in less than 30 seconds. There would be no time to do his ultimate technique. Then again, even if he could, without any emotions, Kenshin wouldn't even be able to see him let alone know where to strike.

Kenshin even states something like "Can you perform your attack in the state you're in?"
Soujirou: "Shun Ten Satsu is so fast..blah blah blah."

So it's obvious that Soujirou lost because of the state he was in...i.e not his peak.

So yeah, I still stand by my statement that I think Soujirou is "stronger" than Kenshin (hell I think Shishio is stronger than Kenshin too). Then again, I know the counter-argument is that whoever won is the strongest. Too bad I'm a Soujirou fanboy and thus my opinion is biased