Best Collaborative Video

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NS
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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by NS » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:16 pm

I also agree with corran in every way. When I saw that changes were made to what collab and MEP meant I just facepalmed.

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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by GloryQuestor » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:43 am

Corran wrote:Why was it decided that collab meant "single song" and MEP was "multi-song"? I don't recall anyone calling for this change to be made in the past. The terms Multi Editor Project and Collaboration do not imply any characteristic other than that multiple people contributed to the video's production.

Now we have two person videos that are billed as collabs in the MEP category, and videos with as many as 46 editors that bill their video as a MEP in the collab category. How are two person collaborations supposed to compete with 46-editor videos...? If we assume that only half of the participants will vote for their own video, that still puts small collabs at a huge vote disadvantage.
First, the problem here is that the site cannot differentiate between the two types of videos. In the context of the site database, any video that had more than one editor would have been classified a "Multi-Editor Project". There had to be a way to differentiate the two terms for the two separate categories, and this was it.

Second, all videos are still subject to the viewer's eye, regardless of the size of the persons involved in the creation of the video. A video made by 2 might actually be better in viewers' eyes than a video made by 46 and get more votes if the video is popular to enough viewers to obtain them.

Lastly, if you feel that the numbers are a disadvantage based on friend or inter-studio voting, then you should know that this is how viewer voting is all over--anyone who has a group of friends sitting in the audience of a convention contest could have them vote for their video and tilt the voting in their favor. There's no way to control that. The best that can be done is to provide a counterpoint: the judges' votes (which in this case is the JCAs).
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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by Kitsuner » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:14 am

How were MEPs and collaborations separated in last year's VCAs?
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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by mirkosp » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:04 am

Kitsuner wrote:How were MEPs and collaborations separated in last year's VCAs?
X = inputbox("Any given number. It doesn't matter since people will dramafest about it being too low or too high anyway.")
If membercount > X Then
MEP
Elif membercount = 1 Then
LOLOLOLSOLOVIDLOLOLOL
Else
Collab
Endif

Something along those lines I think. This year collabs count as solo vids too, tho, since I see them participating in the other categories too. Last year they just had the collab category, iirc.
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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by NS » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:33 am

But it's so simple, and I think pretty widely agreed on that collab means 2 editors. A collaboration between 2 people. Any more and it's MULTIPLE editors, or a Multiple editor project if you will...

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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by mirkosp » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:53 pm

NS wrote:But it's so simple, and I think pretty widely agreed on that collab means 2 editors. A collaboration between 2 people. Any more and it's MULTIPLE editors, or a Multiple editor project if you will...
Spoil is, hands down, a collab and not a mep. That's 3 people and not 2. Same goes for Fragrance. And nothing stops 4 or more people to make together a video that could and should feel as if it was a single video edited by a single person.
Difference between collab and mep is more tied to the feeling of the whole: does it come out as a "single" video? Does it come out as a mix of what could have been different videos? And other aspects have to be taken into account too. Members count is certainly important too, but it shouldn't be the only differentiation point, nor should it be the audio. The issue here is that we haven't yet agreed on a solid definition of collab vs the generic definition of mep, so until we specifically decide what defines MEP and what defines collab, drama is bound to spur. If only the administration decides, it'd be drama, so for the time being definition is just used as a temp one for VCA purposes, so it likely comes down to having some sort of poll or whatever to define which points mark the difference between collab and mep and how. Right now we don't have the time for that though. :|
Also, just to point it out, 2 is multiple editors so by your definition meps and collabs should both fall in the same category, defying the purpose of differentiating them. MEP category was made to making voting more fair (clearly, if 50 people are in the same project, and assuming they are all going to vote for themselves, they would be put at a huge advantage), but when does that difference become so big? If it's just 2 members it's not that big of a deal, but how can you say that 8 is when 7 isn't? Which is why for any given X amount, people would have something to say and this year something different was tried.
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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by NS » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:20 pm

Basically I'm operating on the mindset that an MEP can be a collab but a collab can't be an MEP (when you look at the numbers thing). You make good points, and I realize these things. But when I see The No Excuses MEP (was collaborated in the MEP section and released as such) under collab I'm just like "ugh". Even though I do realise that it was a collaborative effort to complete a single song.. it's just SO obviously an MEP that it's annoying.

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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by mirkosp » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:42 pm

Well, as stated, depending on the point of view and the definition, no excuses could be considered a collab, and in fact was. Now, I personally am not sure about this case, as the original purpose was to try and make it look like a seamlessly flowing whole thing like it could have been edited by a single person despite the use of hard cuts. It obviously failed in many places, but you can still see how it could be considered a collab under that point of view too, and not only just song based.

OTOH, acid star presents a lot of very distinct tracks, and they could have been edited by a lot of different editors... it does give the "hell-like" mep feeling. Being just two users doing it together, it could of course being considered a collab, but here too, song issue aside, there are ways to look at it as a mep instead of a collab.

Like I already said in the other post, until we all agree on a strict definition that definitely sets apart meps and collabs, it will become hard to tell them apart with certainty (and even then there might be the grey area vids like acid star or no excuses could be), so for the time being all we can do is just accept the year's definition and see how it could be improved for the next VCAs.
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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by AGF-Antoine » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:15 pm

Whats weird is that "Multi Editor code: h-bomb - M.E.C.H." made it into the collab finals although there clearly are specified tracks in it.

Would it still be able to move it from collab to MEP?

I just recently found out I could have reported it. In any case, sorry I am late.


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Re: Best Collaborative Video

Post by mirkosp » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:39 pm

Think it's too late now, but based on the single song rule, it does count as collab. Although the clearly shared theme and editing style are other points that could make it count as a collab. It's pretty much the same situation as testosteros (which was also considered a collab).
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