subgenres are retarded

[Kai Stromler]

Black Metal IS silly and dumb. =P

DEATH KRISTJAN will kill you dead for saying so.



--K

[DDramone]

ight, i think i got a better pic of it. i think my image of metal was all nu metal, hair metal, and black metal...

[Flint the Dwarf]

I hate it when people automatically assume that if something's heavy, it must be metal.

x 2, damnit

[HeavyMetal]

For the topic itself:

I would say subsections are retarded for the most part.

In terms of Rock as a main category, Heavy Metal as a subcategory, and the various slightly blended divisions of metal as subsections.

Black Metal IS silly and dumb. =P

DEATH KRISTJAN will kill you dead for saying so.

The origin of all metal. Black Sabbath's Paranoid is still one of the top selling metal albums.

Death Kristjan will have to get in a big line.

In all fairness, most black metal bands don't do that shit any more; very few people have the mentality required to live and perform like Dead (Mayhem) did, and most of those tend to kill themselves fairly quickly, much like he did.

On the topic of Black Sabbath, the bat head thing was actually an accident. Though the pigeon was not, but that was after Ozzy was no longer part of Black Sabbath.

Flash:

A lot of the flashy bands went down fast. Metal that sticks to the music tends to gain loyalty not found in a lot of today's music.

As for the expensive guitars DDramone, it makes a big difference in sound. They're expensive because they are hand crafted out of better resonating materials.

If I wanted themes of anger and teen angst, I'll spin my disturbed and linkin park cds. Though I bet you consider both bands 'metal' as well, don't you?

Lets not be obscene. What a distasteful thought.

Besides plenty of bands have more anger and teen angst, like Slipknot and Nirvana.

I wasn't directly referring to simply Christian metal bands

And I was saying that there is no Christian metal. Metal tends to be secular.

And Kai Stromler believe me I don't base my opinions on Creed.

Yes, but how many other people do you know made of metal?

Arnold the Terminator. And a whole host of anime and manga characters from A to Z.

I stayed away from this because there's not an ounce of me that believes Guns 'n Roses are metal, in any sense of the word. I group them in hard rock.

Understandable. Most of they're Metal songs weren't exactly mainstream. Plus they have a more classic metal sound than their era would imply.

Besides classifying a band is like doing a circle drawing. You take all their songs draw overlapping circles around different types of songs. A good band should not fall strictly in one area or they risk sounding monotonous. I use Nirvana as my example due to their extremely varied songs. Here is an example; their song Dumb doesn’t sound anything like Smells Like Teen Spirit.

So you're saying that every bad band sounds like Andrew WK. Wow, a band that wrote two songs that don't sound ANYTHING alike.. absolute genious. Bands will develop their own unique sound and stick .. more or less .. to it. I brought up a point in the Blind Guardian forum a while back based on Nightwish that uses the reverse of your logic. I challenged Toumas as a very incompitent songwriter because he doesn't seem to have a lot of confidence in any of the material he writes. If anyone cares, I can either re-write what I had written or see if I can dig it up over there, but I don't feel like wasting my time typing up how I don't believe nightwish had truely found their 'sound' cerca Century Child.

You missed the point. I was using an extreme example. They had a lot of songs that fell in between those two as well.

The point was that being monotonous and never trying something new makes for a bad band. These often get called 'one hit wonders' or otherwise have short life spans.

If you read my whole post you would have known that my own favorite band has a unique identifiable signature sound. But they have the guts to play with it a bit and learn from the experience. I did not list their name because if people start bashing it someone might get the forum locked.

This is pretty simple; see Metallica circa 1996, when they started going around saying stuff like "we never really considered ourselves a heavy metal band", or more recently, Brides of Destruction (Nikki Sixx: "I don't really like the term 'heavy metal'; it's all rock'n'roll to me"). Nobody is really being fooled here, and it just makes the bands involved look petty.

Metallica noooooooo! (screams to the sky) It was probably a matter of semantics referring to the fact that some of their songs at the time did not have a metal sound. I would hope so anyway since Metal is in the name.

I mean damn. Songs like Metal Militia, Master of Puppets, Ain't My Bitch, and Sweet Amber, to name a few, are metal.

Don't know what they were thinking at the time they said that. It could have been the songs at the time or maybe the fact they and many of their fans like to think of Metallica as the everlasting garage band.

Oh and I don't use Creed as standard of white metal. I was just saying that Christianity and Metal are like water and electricity.

I don't really list my reasons or evidence for this because I don't want to start a crusade. I tend to have the effect of making people lose faith or cling to it in desperation when that happens. Without ever raising my voice too. Though I find people often resort to yelling over these things. Oh well.

Def Metal is basically Metal without a musical form. I think of it as often horrid noise that few ever listen too. I guess I should have put it as a minor category as it never tends to make it past the garage.

I agree that many subsections in Metal are pretty much just Death Metal in disguise.

[Farlo]

[quote="HeavyMetal"] The origin of all metal. Black Sabbath's Paranoid is still one of the top selling metal albums.[/quote

the first black sabbath album was self-titled(a year before paranoid)

[nailz]

I love how the more you write, the more vague you get.

In all fairness, most black metal bands don't do that shit any more; very few people have the mentality required to live and perform like Dead (Mayhem) did, and most of those tend to kill themselves fairly quickly, much like he did.

On the topic of Black Sabbath, the bat head thing was actually an accident. Though the pigeon was not, but that was after Ozzy was no longer part of Black Sabbath.

Black Sabbath and Ozzy aren't Death or Black metal. If you seriously consider them to be, you really have a narrow scope of what Metal, as a full genere, entails. Ozzy and Randy wrote horror music. There's a big difference between accidentally biting off the head of a bad and spewing blood all over the crowd and actively pitching the idea of committing Euthenasia on stage. Naturally, I forgot the name of the band who tried this, I remember it was in NJ.. I'm sure Kai can back me up on it.

If I wanted themes of anger and teen angst, I'll spin my disturbed and linkin park cds. Though I bet you consider both bands 'metal' as well, don't you?

Lets not be obscene. What a distasteful thought.

Besides plenty of bands have more anger and teen angst, like Slipknot and Nirvana.

Are you saying Slipknot and Nirvana ARE metal then? Because.. they're not. Irregardless of how you classify them, I find both bands putrid.

And I was saying that there is no Christian metal. Metal tends to be secular. And Kai Stromler believe me I don't base my opinions on Creed.

Did you check out ANY of the bands mentioned in this thread? Creed is not metal. Creed is Christian Rock, if even that, much like Evanescence. Farlo throws out 'Lamb Of God' constantly. Why don't you look into them?

(on GnR) Understandable. Most of they're Metal songs weren't exactly mainstream. Plus they have a more classic metal sound than their era would imply.

I'm sorry, maybe you could point me to something they put out that would be considered metal among the community? Certainly nothing off of Appitite, or November Rain... Just because Slash smoked, carried around a bottle of JD everywhere and could belt out a solo with the best of them didn't make their music metal.

You missed the point. I was using an extreme example. They had a lot of songs that fell in between those two as well. The point was that being monotonous and never trying something new makes for a bad band. These often get called 'one hit wonders' or otherwise have short life spans.

How convienient that you missed my point as well. Just because a band constantly "progresses" or changes their sound doesn't make them good either. Again, thats one end of the spectrum your ideology covers, and you seem to refuse to look at the other end.

But they have the guts to play with it a bit and learn from the experience. I did not list their name because if people start bashing it someone might get the forum locked.

I think you're just embarrassed, unconfident in your favorite bands abilities, or you're not too familiar with the tollerance within the metal community (and face it, most of us here discussing this topic at hand are indeed metal fans.) Hello.. we're metalheads, we give credit where credit is due. If something is good, we give it its dues. I make it no secret my absolute disdain for Dream Theaters musical performance, but I still admit that they are all incredibly talented musicians.

This is pretty simple; see Metallica circa 1996, when they started going around saying stuff like "we never really considered ourselves a heavy metal band", or more recently, Brides of Destruction (Nikki Sixx: "I don't really like the term 'heavy metal'; it's all rock'n'roll to me"). Nobody is really being fooled here, and it just makes the bands involved look petty.

Don't know what they were thinking at the time they said that. It could have been the songs at the time or maybe the fact they and many of their fans like to think of Metallica as the everlasting garage band.

As he said, it was a matter of 'survival' and selling records.

Oh and I don't use Creed as standard of white metal. I was just saying that Christianity and Metal are like water and electricity.

I don't really list my reasons or evidence for this because I don't want to start a crusade. I tend to have the effect of making people lose faith or cling to it in desperation when that happens. Without ever raising my voice too. Though I find people often resort to yelling over these things. Oh well.

O thou holy debater and changer of thoughts and beliefs of babes. Shed thy all knowing and limitless knowladge upon us so that we may cast this blanket of darkness from our eyes and see the truth. All ye speak is golden, like honey dripping from 1000 virgins.

I agree that many subsections in Metal are pretty much just Death Metal in disguise.

Thats that then, I can't take anything you say seriously on the topic anymore. You're simply uneducated in this matter. I'm sorry.

[Kai Stromler]

There's a big difference between accidentally biting off the head of a bad and spewing blood all over the crowd and actively pitching the idea of committing Euthenasia on stage. Naturally, I forgot the name of the band who tried this, I remember it was in NJ.. I'm sure Kai can back me up on it.

This was in Florida, unless you're talking about some band other than Hell On Earth...who also tried to do a cannibalism-by-invitation thing. The NJ connection is probably due to Jack Koshick kicking them off one of his fests due to undue controversy (don't remember which this was, might have been NJMHCF, might have been November to Dismember).

Nobody is sure whether they actually had that guy euthanize himself onstage; they are a second-to-third-tier neo-gothic act, without a great deal to reccommend themselves musically, and need all the press they can get. Their home city of Tampa is still trying to pass a law that would make suicide for public entertainment purposes illegal, so they might have after all.

As implied above, heavy use of stunts is usually an indication that the music is lacking. Electric Hellfire Club doesn't do dumb stuff like this because they don't have to.

HeavyMetal: I am disappointed in you....in the future please look at bands' webpages before attempting to use them in a serious argument. Now I am laughing up my sleeve and the Dagdestan scene is proudly waving the flag on your behalf.

PS: Lamb of God (aka Burn The Priest) is not Christian....farlo just likes to mess with people (and pimp good music).

--K

[Farlo]

yeah i throw out lamb of god, because it throws people off, but you can look at other bands that deal with christian issues.

heres some lyrical examples

soulfly - "i believe"

"Every man has to find his own destiny
Just follow your heart and just let it be
I believe in God immortality"

black label society - "mother mary"

"All My Life
Everything's been after me
All My Life
I just refused to see
Take me in from the storm
Come And Rescue Me
Under the wings of mother Mary"

i could list more if you like, but this is just a little example to show you that all metal isnt like deicide in their beliefs

[nailz]

Yah, Kai, thats them... they actually invited some guy to kill himself on stage, he had agreed. Kind of like Kevorkian with music. The town got a wiff of this and the Mayor banned them from playing in his city until he could pass a law making the act illegal or something.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even WANT to go to a show like that. But then, I remember the internet fetishes I've seen. =P

[Kai Stromler]

It makes me wonder why anyone would even WANT to go to a show like that.

If it was, say, Joachim Cans being euthanized, I might be up for that.

(less infighting, more Hammerfall-bashing!)

--K