God

[godix]

True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

Actually, if you believe the bible, god wanted puppets. In order for free will to mean anything you need enough knowledge to use the free will and God didn't want us to have that knowledge. We had to take it ourself, with a little help from a snake. At which point we were punished for all eternity (or until the final judgement, whichever comes first). So while God gave us free will he must have done is as a rather sadistic joke because the first time man used his free will, and used it without the ability to even know they were making a bad choice, they not only got their ass whipped for it but their children and grandchildren and so on got an ass kicking as well. Kinda like if a two month old did something wrong so you toss it in jail for the rest of it's life and toss and offspring it has in jail until the entire line dies out. So yeah, god does want us to be puppets controlled by an omnipotent being and he got rather pissy when things didn't quite work out that way.

[Orwell]

Obligatory Doobl! reference. Yes, the beginning sucks, read the till the end, it's not all that long.

[Krisqo]

True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

Actually, if you believe the bible, god wanted puppets. In order for free will to mean anything you need enough knowledge to use the free will and God didn't want us to have that knowledge. We had to take it ourself, with a little help from a snake. At which point we were punished for all eternity (or until the final judgement, whichever comes first). So while God gave us free will he must have done is as a rather sadistic joke because the first time man used his free will, and used it without the ability to even know they were making a bad choice, they not only got their ass whipped for it but their children and grandchildren and so on got an ass kicking as well. Kinda like if a two month old did something wrong so you toss it in jail for the rest of it's life and toss and offspring it has in jail until the entire line dies out. So yeah, god does want us to be puppets controlled by an omnipotent being and he got rather pissy when things didn't quite work out that way.

As usual I disagree with you Godix.

God put the tree of Knowledge there and forbade Adam and Eve from eating the fruit as a test to see if they would be loyal to what he says. Sure that is in a way being a puppet master, but if he REALLY wanted to control them, he would have made SURE they would never eat the fruit, even with Satan egging them on.

And it was the ONLY RULE. They could do whatever else they wanted but they broke ONE SIMPLE RULE. That would piss ANYONE off to that point. It wasn't a HARD request and I believe they got their just punishment.

Also, keep in mind that Genesis is just a story created during the Babylonian captivity to keep the followers of God in line even during the hardships. There never was a garden of eden or even Noah's Ark. In fact, I think Noah's Ark was written as a way to cancel out the negatives in the Creation Story. Albeit he killed thousands of people in the process so I don't think it holds much credibility, but just a personal opinion.

[wurpess]

True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

But I would not say that Christianity is shoving shit down people's throats. Hell... how often do you hear ANYTHING about Benedict XVI? He's done NOTHING since he was 'elected' Pope. In fact, don't expect him to do anything because he is a transitional Pope while they find a more suitable pontificate to replace him when he dies in a few years.

Ah, but how do you know you have free will? This all could be God's plan from the start. lol. That's just something I always like to think about. Do we actually have free will, or is it like playing the Sims? They might take their own retarded route to get there, but all of their actions have already been set out by some being they can't see. lol. Who knows.

Christianity itself, no, but some Christians, yes. Crusades. The "conversion" of the native Americans. Jehovah's Witnesses. Just various people you meet everyday that will try to convert you convinced that's the only way you will be "saved." I know every religion has that to the extent. Look at the Middle East. But in the US, its Christianity that seems to be the worst about that. I have nothing against Christianity and Christians. I'm technically Roman Catholic. I just hate all these born-again Christians trying like hell to convert everyone, even if they already have a religion or don't want one. Or even worse. Trying to convert someone from another sect of Christianity to theirs convinced that theirs is the only right one. But really its all the same but with slight variations and emphasis on different aspects. So really, its just a matter of picking which one works for you and rolling with it. There's no reason that a Methodist should be telling and Episcopalian they're going to Hell because they're not Methodist. Its all Christianity in the end. You're still following the same ideal. Just going about it in a different manner. Its just one of my peeves. lol. And Pope Benedict did away with Limbo.

Actually, if you believe the bible, god wanted puppets. In order for free will to mean anything you need enough knowledge to use the free will and God didn't want us to have that knowledge. We had to take it ourself, with a little help from a snake. At which point we were punished for all eternity (or until the final judgement, whichever comes first). So while God gave us free will he must have done is as a rather sadistic joke because the first time man used his free will, and used it without the ability to even know they were making a bad choice, they not only got their ass whipped for it but their children and grandchildren and so on got an ass kicking as well. Kinda like if a two month old did something wrong so you toss it in jail for the rest of it's life and toss and offspring it has in jail until the entire line dies out. So yeah, god does want us to be puppets controlled by an omnipotent being and he got rather pissy when things didn't quite work out that way.

Yeah, the voices gave me an "alternate" version of creation and Adam and Eve and stuff, and they said that from the beginning, God and Lucifer were basically quarrelling over how the human race would be. And at that point, God was for puppets and Lucifer was for free will. And when the puppet thing came about, Lucifer felt sorry for us and finally convinced Eve to eat the apple. Needless to say, God was pissed. Took it out on us. And has been using that as an excuse to take his anger out on us ever since. That and punishing anyone who takes any advice whatsoever from Lucifer, since he's still pissed at him. But yeah, that's the voices. And I try not to listen to them. Because they're weird.

[SilversLightning]

I was gonna say a lot of those things but I decided against it mostly what godix said though. We are puppets sometimes and free will is mostly an illusion. That's God's sadistic sense of humor I spoke of earlier. But other times when he's not in a weird mood we go about some sort of business.

But then again if you believe what the bible tells you if you do something wrong he would love you (as much) I thought love was unconditional? Not necessarily. It's only unconditional if you do what He wants. And thus we are puppets.

[Krisqo]

True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

But I would not say that Christianity is shoving shit down people's throats. Hell... how often do you hear ANYTHING about Benedict XVI? He's done NOTHING since he was 'elected' Pope. In fact, don't expect him to do anything because he is a transitional Pope while they find a more suitable pontificate to replace him when he dies in a few years.

Ah, but how do you know you have free will? This all could be God's plan from the start. lol. That's just something I always like to think about. Do we actually have free will, or is it like playing the Sims? They might take their own retarded route to get there, but all of their actions have already been set out by some being they can't see. lol. Who knows.

Christianity itself, no, but some Christians, yes. Crusades. The "conversion" of the native Americans. Jehovah's Witnesses. Just various people you meet everyday that will try to convert you convinced that's the only way you will be "saved." I know every religion has that to the extent. Look at the Middle East. But in the US, its Christianity that seems to be the worst about that. I have nothing against Christianity and Christians. I'm technically Roman Catholic. I just hate all these born-again Christians trying like hell to convert everyone, even if they already have a religion or don't want one. Or even worse. Trying to convert someone from another sect of Christianity to theirs convinced that theirs is the only right one. But really its all the same but with slight variations and emphasis on different aspects. So really, its just a matter of picking which one works for you and rolling with it. There's no reason that a Methodist should be telling and Episcopalian they're going to Hell because they're not Methodist. Its all Christianity in the end. You're still following the same ideal. Just going about it in a different manner. Its just one of my peeves. lol. And Pope Benedict did away with Limbo.

Surprisingly, I only meet a small people like that around my area. And most of the Jehovah's Witnesses just stand around 69th Street Terminal holding their little newsletters. But I guess it might be different in some other parts of the country.

And he did away with Limbo? How the hell did I sleep through that?

Btw... for those wondering, I am a Roman Catholic under the Society of Pope Pius X.

[JaddziaDax]

its the MATRIX WE ARE ALL IN THE MATRIX!!!

[Krisqo]

I was gonna say a lot of those things but I decided against it mostly what godix said though. We are puppets sometimes and free will is mostly an illusion. That's God's sadistic sense of humor I spoke of earlier. But other times when he's not in a weird mood we go about some sort of business.

But then again if you believe what the bible tells you if you do something wrong he would love you (as much) I thought love was unconditional? Not necessarily. It's only unconditional if you do what He wants. And thus we are puppets.

Sorry for double post.

But God's love IS unconditional. He showed that through Jesus Christ. But are we really in the right about this. Keep this in mind. The holy Trinity is something that we, as humans, can never understand. How can one being be three? Does not add up. What is happening here is that through the years of falsities thrown at our faces, we begin to believe things that are totally contradictory. That is how fucked up Christianity has gotten over the centuries.

If you think about it, didn't Jesus say that we would know neither the time or the place where the second coming is going to occure? If you take that literally, as long as someone believes that the world is going to end today, it will NEVER happen.

When looking at things like this, I begin to wonder if there really IS a God or are we just making this shit up...

[guy07]

its the MATRIX WE ARE ALL IN THE MATRIX!!!

It's true

[godix]

God put the tree of Knowledge there and forbade Adam and Eve from eating the fruit as a test to see if they would be loyal to what he says. Sure that is in a way being a puppet master, but if he REALLY wanted to control them, he would have made SURE they would never eat the fruit, even with Satan egging them on.

However he did not give humanity the one thing needed to pass the test. For loyalty to work you have to know loyalty is a good thing and know enough to realize who to be loyal to. If you think about it, Adam and Eve were loyal. Although it was to the instructions of the serpent. But hey, they didn't actually know the serpent was evil and god was good. To them all the had was one guy saying do it, another guy saying don't, and absolutely no way to determine which one they should be loyal too. Imagine if I tell you to pick A or B and if you make the wrong choice I will torture you for the rest of your short miserable life. Then I will torture your children for their short miserable life. If you make the right choice then everything is cool. What is A and B and which is the good choice? Sorry, you don't need to know that and in fact the only way to actually find out is to randomly pick one and just hope you get it right.

Also, keep in mind that Genesis is just a story created during the Babylonian captivity to keep the followers of God in line even during the hardships. There never was a garden of eden or even Noah's Ark. In fact, I think Noah's Ark was written as a way to cancel out the negatives in the Creation Story. Albeit he killed thousands of people in the process so I don't think it holds much credibility, but just a personal opinion.

The bible is the true word of God except, of course, for all the times it isn't? What a weird belief system you must have.