death metal

[NicholasDWolfwood]

Other way around. That's the one thing I hate about "tr00 death metalheads" who say Opeth and bands like them aren't death metal. They have all of the characteristics of death metal, except that they have acoustic/clean passages as well as the distorted/growling. I think it takes more skill to slow down from 200bpm and play a clean passage at 120bpm, than to go at 240bpm for a whole song.

Another thing is that many guitarists are stuck up on tremelo picking, especially in death metal.

[quote=KarlSanders]I see alot of bands where the guitarists are just "trempicking"
as fast as they can go ,
with no regard for actually playing in time with the song-
and that is so fucking obnoxioux to me to hear it euphemized with the
word "trempicking"
its just bullshit if its not actually in time. [/quote]

That's what Karl Sanders, of Nile, had to say about tremelo picking. I agree with him completely.

[Flint the Dwarf]

Other way around.

About what? Oto's comment? Sounds like you're agreeing with him, which has kind of been our point all along...

[Otohiko]

It's not just random frippery on my part, either. Once you realize that speed is only one dimension of music, it makes a lot of sense. It couldn't be more relevant for any instrument other than the guitar, since the beast is very articulate. It might be called an 'axe', but it's not an axe. And being able to play slowly but with taste on it is a huge achievement in itself. 200+ bpm takes a lot of physical strength, to be sure, but that's not the only measure of skill.

[Kai Stromler]

For the short version, everyone in this thread agrees, except the OP. This is because there is no blanket definition that anyone can use for "creative and talented" that represents anything like a linear scale, and because the OP has apparently confused this with "technical agility".

I'd be interested in hearing the OP's definition of "technical death metal"; once you start listening to Atheist, Human and later Death, maybe Candiria and Dysrhythmia (depending on how wide a definition we're using), it's hard to escape the conclusion that since these bands are pulling in influences from other places, mostly jazz, other kinds of music can be just as creative and as technically adroit.

--K

[Bardiel13]

It's true that many (technical) death metal bands ooze talent, but I'd say progressive metal, now-a-days, takes the most talent to play. Then again, there's at least one band in every genre with the same amount of talent as a band in another genre, so who really cares, eh?

[NicholasDWolfwood]

I'd be interested in hearing the OP's definition of "technical death metal"; once you start listening to Atheist, Human and later Death, maybe Candiria and Dysrhythmia (depending on how wide a definition we're using), it's hard to escape the conclusion that since these bands are pulling in influences from other places, mostly jazz, other kinds of music can be just as creative and as technically adroit.

--K

I love being a genre Nazi...I consider bands like Atheist, Cynic, later Death etc as prog death. IMO tech death would be more like Necrophagist or Nile, even if they both have proggier elements to them.

[l Integrate Satan l]

And who made you the judge of musical prowess? You may like every death metal band ever more than Dream Theater, and maybe they play faster, but that doesn't make them more talented. Speed does not equate to talent. Odd times signatures (ie Meshuggah) does not equate to talent. Being able to growl does not equate to talent. Blazing double bass does not equate to talent.

What screams talent to me is composition, depth, and diversity. Some death metal bands have got it, but I sincerely doubt there are 200 of 'em.

Who made me the judge? I made me the judge, after all music is solely based on opinion, and if you're a logical OPEN-MINDED person you realize that musical prowess comes from many different aspects of a band.
A list of aspects based on my opinions starting with the most important.

1. timing, can't make a song if its off-time

2. creativity, relates with time, tired of hearing 4-4 and 6-4, I like listening to a song and wondering if I'm listening to the same song halfway through it

3. technicallity, also dirrectly relates to timing and creativity, I like to see how many sweep picking patterns a guitarist can throw into a song and how many ghost notes a drummer can hit and how many triplets a bassist can strum while keeping time with each other.

4. Emotion/Captivation, you know when you just got done smokin a blunt and your really drunk listening to music and you're in the zone, the first time in 8 years I've shed any tears was when I listened to 1000 Eyes on one of these particular nights drunk and high, I have no idea why I did this but I'm not ashamed

5. Rawness, how well does the cd sound compared to a live show, manufactured bands piss me off, I'd almost rather listen to Dead to Fall than Beneath The Massacre, granted a lot of the bands I listen to suck live

6. Lyrics, I don't give a shit, I'll listen to Nevermore or Into Eternity, they're great musicians even though their singers are faggy at times

It is extremely hard to come across a band with all these aspects because there are only a handfull, a band may posses one of these attributes but lack another.
I've listened to countless songs from hundreds of different genres and my conclusion always leads me back to technical/melodic death metal.
Bands I suggest you listen to if you disagree with what I say, hopefully they will change your mind. (some of these bands are not death metal bands)

1. Death
2. Behemoth (triggered drummer )
3. Between The Burried and Me (jazz influence)
4. Vehemence
5. Cephalic Carnage (Lucid Interval, jazz influence)
6. Decapitated (Winds of Creation or Nihilty)
7. Hate Eternal
8. The Dillinger Escape Plan (Calculating Infinity, one of the most musically talented bands I've ever heard, jazz influence)
9. Krisiun (boring and unchanging at times but good none the less)
10. Mastadon
11. Nile
12. Necrophagist
13. Old Man's Child (triggered drummer )
14. Dimmu Borgir (triggerd drummer )
15. Pyscroptic (tell me this singer doesn't have talent and I'll slap you in the mouth)
16. Goratory
17. The Black Dahlia Murder (talented but stereotypical)

This list should keep you non-believers occupied for a while

[l Integrate Satan l]

Let me put it this way, there is more to talent than the ability to play skillfully and quickly.

Alot of people seem to think that if you play fast you're a much better musician. This seems to be something that a lot of guitarists hold dear to their hearts when in actual fact there is so much more to playing guitar than playing shred. Another form of skill, I believe, is the abillity to fuse other genres flawlessly into a song to make it your own genre. The Police and Sting on his own have done this and made some amazing songs. Also, who can forget Bob Marley? Blues, Rock and of course Reggae all contributed to his historic sound.

I think saying that Death metal is the most talented genre of music is as stupid as saying it isn't talented at all. There is a lot of talent there in the drumming and guitaring I know and I'm sure you'll asure me the bassing and singing is extremely talented too. It's not a genre that I pick up and listen to often, but I have learnt some because I play guitar and appriciate all styles (even Pop ). Really I think that no genre is really more talented than any other.

First of all the thread is called death metal, why would you bring Sting, The Police and Bob Marley into this conversation?
Second of all I didn't say that death metal is the most talented genre of music, I stated the opion that death metal musicians are the most talented musicians in the METAL GENRE, learn how to comprehend what you're reading before you ignorantly post something that has nothing to do with the subject being discussed

[Rozard]

a bunch of bullshit

4. Emotion/Captivation, you know when you just got done smokin a blunt and your really drunk listening to music and you're in the zone, the first time in 8 years I've shed any tears was when I listened to 1000 Eyes on one of these particular nights drunk and high, I have no idea why I did this but I'm not ashamed

OH SHIT I remember Kai Stromier's doing a video to 1000 Eyes with Jin-Roh back on the 2003 AWA Tapes. No offense Kai, but I hated that video.

[NicholasDWolfwood]

And who made you the judge of musical prowess? You may like every death metal band ever more than Dream Theater, and maybe they play faster, but that doesn't make them more talented. Speed does not equate to talent. Odd times signatures (ie Meshuggah) does not equate to talent. Being able to growl does not equate to talent. Blazing double bass does not equate to talent.

What screams talent to me is composition, depth, and diversity. Some death metal bands have got it, but I sincerely doubt there are 200 of 'em.

Who made me the judge? I made me the judge, after all music is solely based on opinion, and if you're a logical OPEN-MINDED person you realize that musical prowess comes from many different aspects of a band.
A list of aspects based on my opinions starting with the most important.

Open-mindedness is one thing. Psuedo-psychological pretentiousness and bigotry are a completely different thing all together.

1. timing, can't make a song if its off-time

Yes you can. It might not be a very good song, but it's still a song. And besides, did you know that most band's first demos are...off-time? And Opeth's "Under the Weeping Moon" has a weird ending due to not playing with a click when they recorded it, therefore it went in and out of time?

2. creativity, relates with time, tired of hearing 4-4 and 6-4, I like listening to a song and wondering if I'm listening to the same song halfway through it

Things don't have to be in 23/18 time signatures to be creative. 4/4 works fine for a lot of bands, including half of the bands at the bottom of this post.

3. technicallity, also dirrectly relates to timing and creativity, I like to see how many sweep picking patterns a guitarist can throw into a song and how many ghost notes a drummer can hit and how many triplets a bassist can strum while keeping time with each other.

Dream Theater has already proved that just because you know music theory and can shred 20 notes a second, and can throw in a lot of different time signatures, that doesn't mean it's good. Sometimes simple is better, such as earlier Death, or certain Cannibal Corpse songs.

4. Emotion/Captivation, you know when you just got done smokin a blunt and your really drunk listening to music and you're in the zone, the first time in 8 years I've shed any tears was when I listened to 1000 Eyes on one of these particular nights drunk and high, I have no idea why I did this but I'm not ashamed

That discredits your opinion, right there.

5. Rawness, how well does the cd sound compared to a live show, manufactured bands piss me off, I'd almost rather listen to Dead to Fall than Beneath The Massacre, granted a lot of the bands I listen to suck live

Unless you're a tr00 kvlt black metal band, nice production = good.

6. Lyrics, I don't give a shit, I'll listen to Nevermore or Into Eternity, they're great musicians even though their singers are faggy at times

Because singers with high vocal ranges are considered "faggy". That's retarded.

1. Death

They win.

2. Behemoth (triggered drummer )

And triggers have to do with what, exactly? Triggers are essential for extreme metal bands with two kick drums, otherwise the kicks sound like ass over the PA a half hour through the set when the drummer starts to get winded.

3. Between The Burried and Me (jazz influence)

They suck.

4. Vehemence

Vehemence ftw

7. Hate Eternal

Derek Roddy ftw. Rutan's production is horrible on I, Monarch though, imo.

8. The Dillinger Escape Plan (Calculating Infinity, one of the most musically talented bands I've ever heard, jazz influence)

Insane live band, and they get Mike Patton's stamp of approval too.

10. Mastadon

They suck.

11. Nile

In Their Darkened Shrines is a masterpiece.

12. Necrophagist

Mohammad pwns on the records, but live his sweeps are sloppy half the time.

13. Old Man's Child (triggered drummer )
14. Dimmu Borgir (triggerd drummer )

Dimmu might not be tr00 kvlt black metal, but they still win. And again, look at #2 for my response to "triggered drummer "

17. The Black Dahlia Murder (talented but stereotypical)

They might be melo-death, but they're still flaming homos.

This list should keep you non-believers occupied for a while

Next list plzkthx.

For the record, I'm a death metal fan, and I've already stated my opinions somewhere on the first page, but there comes a fine line between being a fan, and a psuedo-intellectual.