AWA 2016 The Video Art Track - Deadlines SEP 4 & SEP 13 [EXTENDED]

[Warlike Swans]

How would this variant of the top 10 be?

People vote for their favorite videos and categories at the same time. The videos are all listed, people check the 10 videos they think most deserve a spotlight. Then they select three possible categories the video could be acknowledged for. A list of category suggestions could be listed somewhere, and as people suggest new things, they get added to that list. Jingoro (possibly conferring with other non-competitors) choses which suggested award to give the videos with the most votes. There could be a pre-ordained process for tie breaking (eg, Jingoro picking based on what would round out the contest categorically, having a tie-breaking from of voting from contestants, having a tie breaking round from non-competing editors). The video with the most overall votes gets Best in Show, everything else gets an appropriate award without knowing the ranking.

Creative award titles can still be created, the contest will be guaranteed to award a certain number of videos (rather than possibly having a couple videos sweep multiple categories), and meta gaming is decreased, and participants are still involved in the category creation process.

I also want to restate that a reminder the day before voting for anything closes is something that I believe is important for busy and/or distractible people. I think that having so many category suggestions only appear on the last day, and probably few people voting that day is part of why we have categories that don't have many great options for the this year.

I also think, especially for new comers to this contest, an outline of how voting works would be useful. Maybe have that information with the first email, that gives the download link, since it's known that people have an unfortunate tendency to skim contest rules.

[jingoro]

The trouble with voiding a category after category selection is that I actually order trophies immediately after category selection closes. There's a 3-4 week lead time to get trophies (especially the nice new glass ones) so I don't have a choice in this matter unless I make sure ALL voting that could eliminate a category closes before I order trophies. That'd move up the deadline. I can tell you right now all the trophies have already been ordered and we're stuck with them. Either we award them, or a very nice piece of glass gets wasted. If I start wasting glass, my boss is gonna get upset with me, I'm sure.

[jingoro]

Some people, including myself on a few occasions, have voted on category selection before finishing all the viewing

WTF!? That's like voting for a political candidate in a non-partisan election without even checking their position statement.

additionally staple categories basically are a shoe-in vote by just about anyone who just feels it "should be there" regardless of the quality of the entries.

Then you're doing it wrong, the instructions specifically state to only vote for categories with sufficient material to be interesting.

Category nomination is efficient to allow for the creation and weeding of new categories but I do not believe, in its current format, it allows for a thoughtful analysis of if a staple category should be included at all this year.

Then it is broken, does not serve its purpose, and I am more convinced it needs to be eliminated than I ever was before.

I have too many people who don't vote at all, or don't vote certain categories, to use a non-vote as a "no" vote. I'm happy to add a "none of the above" to the final vote, but it's far too late for me to cancel a trophy order by then... that wastes money, and makes my discussions with my superiors difficult.

[jingoro]

How would this variant of the top 10 be?

(much description trimmed for brevity) This is VERY similar to how Expo works... I'll think about it, but I think Pro would lose a lot of its uniqueness under a "these N videos are worthy, now brand them" scheme.

[Rider4Z]

BLAH all this talk. There is no secret formula that everyone will be pleased as punch with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctkqQAK2Kk

[Xophilarus]

BLAH all this talk. There is no secret formula that everyone will be pleased as punch with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctkqQAK2Kk

I mean.. without discussion we can't come up with solutions that please the most people... It is better to try and figure it out and discuss plans rather than just having stuff happen without talking about it, and have everyone get angry.

what do y'all think of "flex" trophies not mentioning the award they are for?

I honestly wouldn't mind that, but either option sounds reasonable.

How would this variant of the top 10 be?

So at first, I wasn't into this because it raised a lot of concerns, just kind of along the lines of voting for top 10 in general, but the more I thought about it, the more I think this would be worth a shot.
First, I will discuss some of my concerns and the possible drawback of doing this, and then I'll say what I like about it, and some of the interesting opportunities it opens up.
My big concern with it, is since there is already a voting issue, I am not sure if people will want to take the time to properly consider all merits of a video, and give them proper, well-thought out rankings past the first 3. I have seen other ranking contests judged by participants having the first 3 videos be pretty strong and reasonable, but with the rest feeling almost random due to people not bothering to take the proper time to analyze the merits of all the videos. I would also be concerned with some people just picking the videos from what they personally liked most to least, regardless of the actual editing quality of the video since I have seen that in other contests before to. That being said, I would like to believe the participants of Pro are above that, which is why I think it would be worth a shot to do. Also, if that resulted in this being the only stage in voting, it would make sense that it would take a bit more time and dedication during this part, and it honestly still would probably end up being less time in the end than if the participants were asked to do the 3 rounds of voting we do now.

Now, here's the potential to the idea I like a LOT. First, it gives awards a kind of certainty that they will be spread out over more editors. In the current format, I do not think it is an issue if one video gets a lot of categorical awards if it is the best video, you know, that represents multiple categories. There are, though, some situations where some of the best videos end up not getting rewarded since one category is super stacked. I'll use upbeat for example. Most of the best in show nominations from last year were in the "Upbeat" category, so only one 3 or 4 upbeats that had the best in show nomination actually got an award. Which, again, in the current format happens and if perfectly understandable. With the top 10 video rankings, however, a stacked category won't screw over videos that would otherwise be very deserving of recognition.
I like Nyn's alternate suggestion because it will eliminate the really strong "feel bad" kind of vibe you get from getting an award that says you got "6th" place or something, and not knowing what the actual rankings are, besides best in show, will also prevent that from happening.
I know you are a bit concerned about it feeling like expo, and to that I have a suggestion that I believe will actually add to the uniqueness of Pro that would fit really well added to Swan's suggestion.

What if, when participants submitted their videos, there was an option to actually give a couple options of Award names they would like their videos to have? So of that video ends up ranking in the top 10 and gets an Award, they will actually have a name they came up with on the trophy. It will help make the videos feel really personalized, and kind of bring a really nice unique flare to the contest. I know that would mean the voting would either need to happen quite a ways away from the con, or that they get their awards after the con, but honestly, I think that would be worth it because I can't think of another contest that could give that opportunity to someone.

I hope all of this made sense xD If anything sounded weird or confusing let me know and I can clear it up since I kind of rushed to type this so I wouldnt be late for class xP

[The Wired Knight]

Some people, including myself on a few occasions, have voted on category selection before finishing all the viewing

WTF!? That's like voting for a political candidate in a non-partisan election without even checking their position statement.

additionally staple categories basically are a shoe-in vote by just about anyone who just feels it "should be there" regardless of the quality of the entries.

Then you're doing it wrong, the instructions specifically state to only vote for categories with sufficient material to be interesting.

Category nomination is efficient to allow for the creation and weeding of new categories but I do not believe, in its current format, it allows for a thoughtful analysis of if a staple category should be included at all this year.

Then it is broken, does not serve its purpose, and I am more convinced it needs to be eliminated than I ever was before.

I have too many people who don't vote at all, or don't vote certain categories, to use a non-vote as a "no" vote. I'm happy to add a "none of the above" to the final vote, but it's far too late for me to cancel a trophy order by then... that wastes money, and makes my discussions with my superiors difficult.

As to part one, it's more of a cause and effect - if I am running behind on viewing the videos for reason A or reason B I run into the dilemma that I either have to vote on categories without having seen all the entries yet or just not vote on categories at all. Nowadays I tend to err in favor of the latter because I don't want my voting skewed by not having seen everything yet.

As to the second note - I think this is not entirely dissimilar to the Acadamy Awards. Remember the year only two entries were up for best song and neither was particularly good? (The year Rio won I think). Some categories are just so ingrained into the awards that it seems a disservice to not have them so videos receive an obligatory nomination to a category that maybe should not be awarded at all. Now if we err on the side of removing it then I think this needs to be more abundantly clear to the participants - how to do that is anybody's guess because although it is written in the rules I would wager that most people (like ToS) just don't read the damn thing - and the more checks and balance syou put int he system to try and guarantee that they read it the more a hassle it becomes to vote at all.

Honestly the best way to allow for breaking down the staple categories is to make them more of an opt out rather than an opt in question. Basically a part of the form says "should we have a comedy category this year?" (possibly phrase that differently). Since the default point of view is "yes" then it would encourage people to think twice about it when the question is phrased in a way to make them reconsider that position.

[Rider4Z]

BLAH all this talk. There is no secret formula that everyone will be pleased as punch with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctkqQAK2Kk

I mean.. without discussion we can't come up with solutions that please the most people... It is better to try and figure it out and discuss plans rather than just having stuff happen without talking about it, and have everyone get angry.

Ya'll have more patience than I do.

[The Wired Knight]

BLAH all this talk. There is no secret formula that everyone will be pleased as punch with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctkqQAK2Kk

I mean.. without discussion we can't come up with solutions that please the most people... It is better to try and figure it out and discuss plans rather than just having stuff happen without talking about it, and have everyone get angry.

Ya'll have more patience than I do.
Quoted Image converted to link:
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pi ... 599976.gif

Because I can't find a youtube clip of the quote - here's one from the movie 1776 about why New York is always abstaining on votes. . .I feel it's fair to use here. . .

"they all talk very loud, and very fast, and nobody listens to anybody else, with the result that nothing ever gets done"

[Rider4Z]

"they all talk very loud, and very fast, and nobody listens to anybody else, with the result that nothing ever gets done"