AWA 2011 Pro Video Discussion Thread

[zeiram_00]

I think "picky" is more accurate, as some of the videos you gave high scores for (#16 is a 5/5? really? It's rather mediocre and there was really nothing special about it...) weren't that great, technical or concept wise. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind criticism of my of my own video, but I expect more out of someone who claims to be a "critic"...

Maybe i just enjoyed that video, its my subjective opinion for that video. Read my preface to the review, it says its a basic/quick/generic breakdown of the videos, not full critique. I hope that's what you were referring to by expecting more out of the reviews.

First off, while limiting bias is good, the point here isn't objectivity; AMVs are an art. Secondly, you very clearly demonstrate a preference for action vids/editing style in your scores, so your bias speaks for itself.

Art = open to interpretation. I understand this.
There were many action or upbeat videos this year so of course that will be representative in my scores. I'm sorry i don't like bland drama related videos.

"Harsh" seems accurate to me, so does "Erratic." ...Then again if I had a spread sheet generating random scores it would correlate to mine a lot better than mine correlates to zeiram's, so perhaps I'm just incapable of comprehending such an alien mind.

Harsh, yes. Erratic, a little. As for the rest of the comment, ????


My thoughts on the removal videos is simple. New system, new rules, multiple deadline extensions means to me that there will be a few hiccups with this years contest. I understand that so not all perturbed by the actions taken.


I too am disappointed in some of the categories having few options among the submissions. Drama, Romance, and Sentimental always run the risk of being combined at any competition because of their close similarities to each other. Same with artistic endeavor and technical but not as much. So i guess us contestants/editors should do a better job with category nominations in requesting/suggesting categories to combine instead of focusing on adding new categories.

[l33tmeatwad]

I think "picky" is more accurate, as some of the videos you gave high scores for (#16 is a 5/5? really? It's rather mediocre and there was really nothing special about it...) weren't that great, technical or concept wise. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind criticism of my of my own video, but I expect more out of someone who claims to be a "critic"...

Maybe i just enjoyed that video, its my subjective opinion for that video. Read my preface to the review, it says its a basic/quick/generic breakdown of the videos, not full critique. I hope that's what you were referring to by expecting more out of the reviews.

Nah, that is not what I was referring to, the one video you gave 5/5 was just rather random when you look at how you got technical with some of the other videos, but oh well *shrugs*

[kiarrens]

OK, finally done with my nominations.

I'd just like to say that I LOVED #26 and #35. I really, really want to see the video source for 35 now. What interesting animation...

[l33tmeatwad]

OK, finally done with my nominations.

I'd just like to say that I LOVED #26 and #35. I really, really want to see the video source for 35 now. What interesting animation...

I liked those too, those were some of the most unique videos in the contest.

[SailorDeath]

OK, finally done with my nominations.

I'd just like to say that I LOVED #26 and #35. I really, really want to see the video source for 35 now. What interesting animation...

for #35, It's on youtube, called "The Backwater Gospel" and is a 10 minute short.

[kiarrens]

for #35, It's on youtube, called "The Backwater Gospel" and is a 10 minute short.

Oh awesome! I'll definitely check it out when I get home from work. The whole thing looked... almost like woodcuts. I love to see animators branching out and doing unique things with the art.

[BasharOfTheAges]

Retractions are regrettable but after hearing the director's side of things it makes a lot of sense. (And you know I fought that one hard.) I too had a video cut from Pro, but because it was questionable I did pose the question to the VAT staff prior to entering. In the future that's really the best bet to prevent said issues.

The one major redemptive quality to that is those videos will be judged along with the expo swill. A quality pro level entry may contend better, so all is not yet lost.

Yeah, promptness with questioning about content is important. As an organizer every year I would get one or 2 people asking whether a video might be too much for the audience. There was one occasion where it was a just a little too much for a public showing and I told him that the video was excellent and stood a chance at winning. He made an alteration to the video and submitted it and it ended up winning an award (sorry I can't remember the specifics, I can't remember what year it was let alone what video) but the point I'm making is that I told him that as it was it'd be dq'd long before the deadline so he had plenty of time to fix it. Personally, if I have a video one might find questionable I'll make the extra effort to find out if it would violate the rules with the ones in charge, if they told me it was too much I'd either enter it elsewhere or make adjustments so that it would be permissible. Especially for a contest like Pro, where if it was too much I'd want to submit another entry in its place.

I was a bit peeved about what happened to #6 and #20, I don't know the circumstances with those who submitted them (from the sound of it, one of them was yours, though secrecy doesn't matter now since it was cut) If you had asked them to look at it before the deadline and said you could make changes and they told you it was okay, I'd have been furious if they later reneged on that.

I think part of the other problem was the R-restriction. R-ratings can really push the line sometimes, and before one decides on a rating, I'd suggest a movie that is controversial with that rating. Watch it, ask yourself "Would I be fine showing this to an audience that might have minors in it" if it's too much bump it down a notch. For instance, Scarface is an excellent movie, but there is a lot of cussing and violence. That movie came very close to getting an NC-17 rating which would make it a good example of what the limits are for that rating. I wouldn't show that to an audience with minors. So, I'd move down to PG-13. That rating is what we made the acen amv contest, anything higher and we'd ask them to censor it, or submit it to the hentai contest. I found this on a website that describes PG-13 and R:

PG-13 is a strong warning to parents that the film may contain content inappropriate for under-teenaged children. Any drug use will require at least this rating, as will the use of the F-word as an expletive (using this term in a sexual context will garner an R rating). Nudity is permissible in a non-sexual context and violence may be more intense and persistent than in a PG film.

A rating of R indicates that a film contains some material for adults. Strong language and violence may be prevalent. The R rating also includes films with drug usage and other elements most parents would find suitable only for adults.

I knew the removal of hentai from pro was a long time coming, so I wasn't all that surprised when it did happen. Though I was surprised that they said the worse it can be is an R-rating because one can really do a lot within those boundaries.

Those quotes actually came from an MPAA website at some point. I've found a lot of contests have a very difficult time establishing content guidelines in general; that is, they point to something readily understood, like a movie ratings system, without fully appreciating what those ratings do and do not cover. PG13 allows for fleeting utterances - single usage of the word "fuck" in an exclamatory (but non sexual) context, and slightly more use of less severe naughty words. It allows for brief, non sexual nudity. This blows people's minds. R allows for violence at the level of torture porn movies like Saw and Hostel, language of the level of Casino, the South Park movie, Goodfellas, etc. and sex just short of porn. Animation is also known to have these rules applied in a lesser manner because the medium isn't showing real people. The only thing that shouldn't pass an R rating for an AMV contest are the sex scenes in hentai. What's more, these ratings, by the governing body's own admission, aren't a set of guidelines, they're comparisons. The people that actually rate movies compare what they have in front of them to past films with similar content. Pulp Fiction did X, Y and Z, this does X, Y, and Z - we're going to give it the same rating. The turn over in this ratings group and changing of societal norms is what causes ratings creep.

[kiarrens]

All of that is true, Bashar, but what's the alternative? Writing out your rules like "This contest allows the usage of the words sh** and cr** but only one exclamatory usage of the word fu**. (Exclamatory and NOT referring to the act of sexual intercourse, to be exact.) The contest does not allow the use of the word cu** at all. Up to 15 seconds of brief nudity in a non-sexualized scene is allowed. Nips on titties are allowed providing they do not have tassles. Dicks are banned, the only exception being Dr. Manhattan's, because who can't get enough of giant glowing blue dick?"

I am, of course, being facetious, but you see where I'm going, I hope. It should be enough to say "This contest adheres to a general PG-13 (or R) rating" and let the contest coordinator make the final decision, without having to go into ridiculous detail on every little thing.

[BasharOfTheAges]

All of that is true, Bashar, but what's the alternative? Writing out your rules like "This contest allows the usage of the words sh** and cr** but only one exclamatory usage of the word fu**. (Exclamatory and NOT referring to the act of sexual intercourse, to be exact.) The contest does not allow the use of the word cu** at all. Up to 15 seconds of brief nudity in a non-sexualized scene is allowed. Nips on titties are allowed providing they do not have tassles. Dicks are banned, the only exception being Dr. Manhattan's, because who can't get enough of giant glowing blue dick?"

I am, of course, being facetious, but you see where I'm going, I hope. It should be enough to say "This contest adheres to a general PG-13 (or R) rating" and let the contest coordinator make the final decision, without having to go into ridiculous detail on every little thing.

You probably don't need to get that specific, just realize that (for animation at least) R pretty much means everything but hentai and don't have the standard be R unless that's what you're okay with. Same with PG13 - don't have that be your standard if you want absolutely no swearing. If there is no magical rating that encompasses what you're okay with, you, unfortunately, need to get more specific and spell things out. As I said, a lot of contests have a hard time with that. Even the MPAA isn't great about consistency or rather, they let their biases show from time to time too (mostly with interracial romance into the 70s and with gay romance for... well still). They also slowly slip towards less nudity and more language/violence for the same ratings over the course of a decade.

[SailorDeath]

Screw it, next contest I run will contain G-Rated amvs only.