Best Dance Video

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Anamorphic Productions
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Post by Anamorphic Productions » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:21 pm

Can I be amused that Delirium is still in the running, and is the only Single-Editor video left? I mean, I'm technically going up against the skill of 9+ editors per video... And that's REALLY intimidating in one sense, and increadibly amusing in the other. ^____^

Since I don't like voting for myself, I'm going to re-watch all the rest and figure out what I'd vote for if I wasn't me. ^^ :lol:

Thank you EVERYONE who's voting for me. I'm just flabbergasted. Really. :oops:

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Post by angelx03 » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:29 pm

I will bow down to you if you win Best Dance. Seriously, that will be one hell of a feat! :D
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hanyou21
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Post by hanyou21 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:29 am

I would say you can take the Animix parts, especially since many votes will be going to the completed project and ppl might not like to vote for it 2x, like me. Reflections of Style may be difficult to overcome, but I think your toughest competition will be Children Project - even I voted for it, sorry. :(

Vote for Animix Complete Project for Best Multi-Editor Project, ppl! 1 hour worth of AMV-goodness!!! C'mon!!! :P
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Post by Garylisk » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:33 pm

Anamorphic Productions wrote:Can I be amused that Delirium is still in the running, and is the only Single-Editor video left? I mean, I'm technically going up against the skill of 9+ editors per video... And that's REALLY intimidating in one sense, and increadibly amusing in the other. ^____^

Since I don't like voting for myself, I'm going to re-watch all the rest and figure out what I'd vote for if I wasn't me. ^^ :lol:

Thank you EVERYONE who's voting for me. I'm just flabbergasted. Really. :oops:
Ya got my vote. Delerium ROCKS!
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JCD
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Post by JCD » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:45 pm

I'm really dissapointed of the finalists in the dance category. Only one single editor video? Come on >_<
But this really shows that most of the audience doesn't download nominated videos and only vote for what they have already. That way the most popular videos get in the finals.

While all the multi-creator projects are great, I feel sad that they're pushing away so many great single videos like Phantasmagoria and Oh! My Destiny. We have a multi-creator project category for the rest.

Sorry for letting this out, but I totally disliked Delirium, too. I'm not an enemy of constant flashing, but it totally doesn't fit in this video based on the scenes which were chosen (esp. towards the end). Dance is about high motion and nodding your head to the beats, this is where this video fails imho.
Don't take it personally, Anamorphic, I still love your Arjuna video :D

And sorry for my rant -_-
/me votes for RoS
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Post by dokool » Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:37 pm

JCD wrote:Sorry for letting this out, but I totally disliked Delirium, too. I'm not an enemy of constant flashing, but it totally doesn't fit in this video based on the scenes which were chosen (esp. towards the end). Dance is about high motion and nodding your head to the beats, this is where this video fails imho.
Don't take it personally, Anamorphic, I still love your Arjuna video :D
x2. Sadly, I totally understand why people have voted for it this far. I think the other vids in the category are certainly much stronger and technically/aesthetically/conceptually advanced.

My vote? Despite the fact that TCP somehow made it to the final round, I'm deciding between Animix 4 and 5. At this point it may come down to a coin flip...

-DOKool

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Post by WilLoW :--) » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:12 pm

I second JCD and DoKool Here.
I'm really disappointed that the multi Editor projects took so many chances away for other videos. I was hoping that the fact that animix had 2 nominations would reduce the votes they both get :?

Also I'm a Dance Vids fan, and I don't really like the only "single creator" vid that is nominated.
I know we're not supposed to criticize here, and I'm happy for you, Anamorphic, that you've been nominated, but I feel it hard for other creators who've definitely tried to put Dance vids to a higher level, in terms of music, creativity, effects, and "art". Delirium is a vid I would've appreciated 4 years ago when I started watching AMV, but not today.

Some vids in this category really tried to bring something new, yet the voters have chosen the classical "various Anime + Dance music" vids.
While creators try to evolve, apparently the viewers don't :?

Damn, should I vote blank ? Hell, probably ROS, because it's the one that's got the less creators involved :lol:

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Post by hanyou21 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:45 pm

Regardless of who wins this year, I really think that we should limit the number of multi-editor projects that get into the finals to, say for example, 2. That may have allowed Phantasmagoria or Oh My Destiny, or other fine vids that a single person undertook to get into the running, and not be edged out by larger groups of ppl with more time and resources.

That would mean we'd have to expand the best multi-editor category a bit, but the details could be hammered out later.

C'mon dokool, vote for TCP - while I love Animix to death, there are a couple of sections that look like they got newbed. On the contrary, RoS and TCP both look good throughout their entire length, and in my opinion only TCP keeps you pumped throughout.

Dang, think I typed enough here? 8-)
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Post by silver_moon » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:56 pm

I wanted JCD's "Strike On" and xRinoa's "Oh My Destiny" to get to the finals. :cry:

And if VicBond had just put his DDR4 track up for download, it probably would've won, because his track was just awesome.
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dokool
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Post by dokool » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:19 pm

hanyou21 wrote:C'mon dokool, vote for TCP - while I love Animix to death, there are a couple of sections that look like they got newbed. On the contrary, RoS and TCP both look good throughout their entire length, and in my opinion only TCP keeps you pumped throughout.
But see, I appriciate Animix for different reasons. Unlike all the other previous MEPs, which had a very high standard in terms of editor participation, Animix allowed anyone to participate, and even though a few big names participated in Animix for the most part there were more international and 'unknown' editors. I think that's part of it's charm. There were a lot of names I didn't know that did some excellent segments.

I mean, here's my rationale: TCP focuses on a theme (childhood/youth in anime), RoS focuses on a concept (allowing each editor to display their personal style). Delerium focuses on its ability to wow the audience by giving them seizures and forcing them to assume that whatever they just watched was probably a great video. Animix 4 and 5 truely embody the concept of a dance vid - they're both technically good <i>and</i> fun. The quality of the segments in Animix also improved steadily over the course of the entire project, and reached its zenith in 4 and 5. That's why my vote will go to Animix.

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Post by hanyou21 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:43 pm

I hear you on that dokool - that's why Animix is getting my fav multi-editor project vote. But at the same time, I just think TCP earned best Dance vid, with RoS right on its tail.

Oh, and as for Oh My Destiny, hell ya I'd wish that would've got into the finals. *sigh*, oh well... I just think it didn't have a solid enough concept behind it and was a little to trigger-happy with the special effects, but I still enjoyed it.
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Post by Anamorphic Productions » Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:19 pm

dokool wrote: ..... Delerium focuses on its ability to wow the audience by giving them seizures and forcing them to assume that whatever they just watched was probably a great video.
Heh. I decided not to reply this morning, and now I have a LOT more to work with.

Firstly, the concept of Delirium was simple. Utilize frame by frame editing and a very high-impact song to play on visual cues our eyes have. Delirium was NOT made to be a dance video, and therby the concept is not the standard.

What I was exploiting was the fact that when you see something split, as I did, frame by frame through two or three video tracks, your mind stores each image. You see scene 1 in frame A, scene 2 in frame B, and Scene 1 TWO frames further in frame C, and your mind keeps both images in your head and fills in the missing info.
Pull in three frames and you mind will shift between recognizing any two, and reading the third as background noise.

What gets really interesting is once you realize what's going on, you will then tell your eyes which scene you want to focus on, and your eyes will then bring that to the forefront, though neither is stronger than the other. Often, this will be dictated the first time you watch by the tone of the music- the faster, harder it is, the more likely you are to pick out the fight scenes, and the softer, slower it is, the more you'll look for the corresponding scene.

You're quite welcome to dislike Delirium- I fully expect some people to hate it, and in fact on of my best friends really can't stand it.

But it drives me nuts that people write it of as a "She was just doing a trendy flashy dance video with no point".

Delirium was expierimental, first and formost, and no scene was chosen without reason. It's easy to catagorize as a flashy dance video, but that's not what it was intended to be.

*coughs* Yes, now that that's off my chest....

I'm disappointed by the qualifying vids, and I'm IN them, which says something. Delirium isn't meant to be a dance video, but it does work as one, and I know a lot of people who love the pace of it and it does actually make them want to get up and 'move' as per the guidelines, so I don't feel that it's not qualified for the category.

But I've rewatched all the other vids now, and gone back to see what I voted for originally, and I'm sad that none of the vids fit the dance category for me.

I got the dance vibe from Oh My Destiny, and
Phantasmagoria, and , for that matter, Alien Attack!. Dance videos HAVE to keep their pace, and can NOT have moments that take me 'out' of the video.

I have two problems with the multi-editor vids.

1) BECAUSE they're done by more than one editor, the video is ONLY as strong as their WEAKEST editor. This is really apparent in the Animix entries. While some parts are great, and some are good, many are just average for me, and often slow. Any video that has me looking at the trackbar to see how long it's been has failed to keep my attention. And for a dance video, that's lethal.

2) The videos are TOO BLOODY LONG.
The longer a video is, the more the person who is watching is aware of it. The more they're aware of the passing time, the LONGER the video feels. The more attention they pay to this, the more bored they will get watching. A bored viewer means you've failed, re point 1.

You can get away with this if your video is amazing, but the longer it is and the more editors it has, the more chance you run of having one or two or five sections drag the video down, and you've then lost the pace.

Dance videos, by definition, have to have energy, have to have a constant pace to keep the viewer enthralled. Ideally, they shouldn't look at the time till the video is done.

There wasn't one entry I didn't loose interest in at some point, not one entry that didn't have an editor break the pace for me. Now of course, this is just me and my own opinion and viewing styles, but realistically, the more editors on a project, the more problems you're going to run into where one editor's style grates against a viewer- and it might be one of the sections I love that drive someone else nuts.

I'm having a hard time voting, since I'm stuck between RoS or TCP. Neither are dance videos for me- though I love them both quite well. RoS would have gotten a best Artistic vote from me, and TCP best Instrumental. Now, in these constraints, I'm stuck, because to me, RoS is the better video, but TCP fits the Dance category fractionally better.

I still don't know where my vote is going to go, but I am going to do my best to not vote for myself. ^^

Oh, and feel free to argue with my points above. They are, of course, just opinions, and admittedly not everyone in the world is perfect like me. :lol:

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Post by hanyou21 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:26 am

Wow, that was long - I definitely respect the amount of time it took you to do Delerium, but in my opinion it's far better than you give it credit for. The combination was just excellent and wowed me the first time I saw it - hell, I even turned out the lights and "partied" to it.

I'll definitely agree with you on some portions of the Animix, it did hit low points once in awhile. However, I will say that staying attention through the entire thing, especially the 1-3 or 4 times wasn't a problem for me. If you didn't like one song it changed in like 30sec. However, a point I would like to argue is that for 10+ min multieditor projects, energy doesn't have to get high and stay there.

For a short normal length AMV, ya, get high and stay constant. But in long projects it's unrealistic, and creates more of a dramatic effect if you let the energy sag, and then build up to a climax/high point. Take the last 5 some minutes of Animix, not counting the credits - you go from normal mixes, to the Cat Soup portion (which I hate, no offense), and then all of a sudden you hit the climax. If you're not expecting it, it has the element of surprise and is better than if you would've gradually built up to it.

Idk - I just kinda like all the random highs in lows in these projects, it's like a rollercoaster :D Oh, and the Asuka segment around 40 min still is awesome even after seeing the vid for like 20 times.
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Post by godix » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:48 am

I'm personally a little disappointed with the results because of all the MEPs in it. In general MEPs have a several major problems with them and all four chosen show those problems.

First of all there's little coherent theme to them except the music used. The Childrens Project is the only one that had a theme that wasn't so vague it's beyond description but even then 'all about children' is rather broad. A MEP treats themes like a shotgun treats a target, it just splatters all over the place and hopes some of it will hit.

Second off, theres little consistency in style. One part might draw me in and I'm grooving to it then all of a sudden there's a half second transition and the entire feel of the vid has changed. Repeat this problem many times and you have a MEP. The ones that break a single song among creators are worse for this than those that give each creator their own song but they all suffer from this to some degree or another.

Third off, some parts of a MEP suck. There's no kind way to put it, certain parts just suck. A coordinator doesn't have nearly the control over the video that a single editor has working alone so there's little that can be done with the part that sucks other than, in extreme cases, asking someone else to do the track instead. So each of these videos leaves me thinking 'Ok, that was decent except for part XYZ'.

Fourth, they're too long. 10 minutes is entirely to long to keep up a fast paced dance feel. And a huge hour long mix? That'll require 6 or 7 sitting to get through. Keep in mind this isn't like a club, the audience isn't dancing with the music and isn't as into it. For the most part we're just sitting here passively watching. I have yet to see a MEP that didn't have me at least once check the time line to see how much more I have to sit through.

Finally, none of the MEPs are dance videos. None of them drew me in an made me feel like moving which a good dance video should. Which isn't exactly a complaint because I don't think any of them were designed to do that to begin with.

Incidently, none of this is hard feelings about my own video not advancing. While I really appreciate anyone who voted for me, objectively speaking, I don't think it was good enough to deserve being in the semi-finals much less the finals. If anything I'm relieved I didn't make the cut and have people thinking 'WTF, how did that piece of shit make it?' I'm just disappointed I'm left voting for a video I can barely tolerate (sorry Anamorphic) just because it's the only one that I can stand watching to the end in one sitting.
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Post by AbsoluteDestiny » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:47 am

HEY! Read the sticky!! NO criticising the entries. If you can't accept the nominees as voted for by hundreds then tough.

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