More gun talk, just for kicks!

LightningCountX · Post by **LightningCountX** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:29 pm

my favorite guns are...

The m4a1

Sidearm the Sigpro p228

and of course, the H&K MP5 Navy with scope ^_^

I could only find a pic of the mp5 with scope from the desert combat site, i love using that gun in that game ^_^ IMA 9MM SLUT

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:23 pm

Cutter? can you make a custom bullet say taking the 50 caliber shell and putting the 38 calber bullet onto it? if so can ya give a guess ass to the velocity for one in a modified Uzi? with smoooth bore? I have been wanting to see if i could get someone to design a custom HV armor piercer and was curious if ya though it be possible.

It's possible, but I don't have any experience with machining tools. I have done some .38 Special +P reloading, using 10 grains of 2400 smokless powder, but cranking out 50 rounds of existing ammo using a handloading book table on the .38 Special's capacity is a helluva lot different from designing a new cartridge.

But, let's take a look at what we could do...

After checking out the Reload Bench website Kthulu gave me the link for, and doing a little checking on Modern submachine guns, here's a more feasible idea for you:

Take two or three Ingram MAC-10's:

These weapons are available in .380 ACP (9x17mm), 9x19mm Luger, and .45 ACP. After a little brainstorming, I had the idea "Why not take the lower/upper receiver of a .45 ACP MAC-10, and attach the barrel of a .380 ACP MAC-10?".

Basically, you'd be looking at taking a .45 ACP casing, and angling the .473" rim to a snug .3565", to allow the .380 ACP slug to fit. Or, you could angle the rim down to .357", so you could use .357 Magnum Wadcutter and semi-Wadcutter slugs (which are perfect for target practice, and punching nasty holes in burglars). Then again, JHP rounds are well-known for having higher velocities (probably due to the lighter mass), and they have a higher stopping power, while being less lethal than FMJ rounds (despite what the boneheaded "gun enthusiasts" tell you, JHP may inflict serious internal injuries, but at least the victim won't bleed to death by a nasty hole).

With the lighter mass .380 ACP slug driven by all extra powder one can cram into the modified .45 ACP casing, you'd have the advantage of greater stopping power at 100 yards, with the barrel rifling and .380 ACP slug giving one superior accuracy. The combination of more powder and the lighter mass bullet would also give you the higher velocities you're looking for (I'd estimate somewhere around 1,300 to 1,600 fps muzzle velocity). The .380 ACP slug also has a tendency to conserve kinetic energy more than the .45 ACP (meaning you'd have higher velocities out at 100 yards with the modified bullet than with a standard .380 ACP).

There you go! Your ultimate MAC-10 submachine gun, without too much gunsmithing involved.

Also, check out the Calico SMG:

yuppa · Post by **yuppa** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:51 pm

sweeetttt man. thats what i wanted . the description of the possibiities ther are just about what im looking for. and the calico would be a god one. Hey can you get a Rc p 90? if so how much are they?

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:08 pm

Toecutter wrote: The .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO) is pretty good, but the most accurate rifle round to date would have to be the .50 BMG. Carlos Hathcock, the famous Marine Corps scout/sniper in Vietnam, once mounted a telescopic sight to a Ma Deuce (.50 BMG Browning machine gun), and took out a target just over a mile and a half away, setting a world record. The most accurate, widely available round cheap enough to regularly practice with would have to be the .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO).

although technicaly .50's are legal ... i don't really consider them a conventional civilian cartridge ... Actualy i read somwhere that anyone with some basic gunsmithing knowledge can take parts you'd normaly find lying around a decent gunsmith's shop and build a kick ass .308 target rifle from scratch. Plus i think the .308 used to (or still dose) hold a record for the longest free hand shot made ... i think i saw it in a collum written in gun news flyer. It was about how people wanted .50's to be out lawed because they thoguh they were overkill and had no practicle uses.

by the way Yuppa, any reason why you'd want a smooth bore smg? you get way more range and accuracy from a rifled barrel.

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kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:30 pm

Banning .50 caliber weapons is a stupid idea. The cheapest .50 BMG rifles are around $1500, and those are for the single shot bolt-action type. They can increase in price up to $7500 (for the Barret M82 semi-auto) or more. As far as criminal use goes, they're not used - they're too expensive to buy (and operate - .50 BMG rounds are $1 - $2 each), and too unwieldy.

And yuppa, are you talking about the FN P90?

The P90 fires a proprietary armor piercing cartridge, 5.7x28mm caliber. Because of this, and its select fire capability, AND the fact that it is a post-1986 Class III weapon, it's impossible for a civilian to own one. Even a Class III dealer can't really buy one - they can only acquire them for law enforcement use, and only with a letter stating an intent to test or acquire said piece.

The P90 is not that cool a weapon, anyways - it fires an expensive and rare caliber, it can have problems with its magazine causing feeding issues (jostle it too much and the rounds become "unstacked", as I recall), and good luck getting it serviced or finding add-ons.

An MP5 or some other 9mm weapon is a better choice.

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:10 am

Hey Yuppa,

I thought you'd find the Calico SMG pretty amusing. It was developed in 1990, and the helical magazine (that's right, HELICAL, not circular or linear!) gives it the ability for the sub-machine pistol variant to carry 50 rounds easily. The magazine is that dorky cylinder mounted to the top of the weapon in the previously posted picture.

Nice to hear you're satisfied with the .380-.45 ACP catridge hybrid. Now that I think about it, the best rifling for the weapon would be a 1 in 12" RH twist. A 1 in 9" RH twist gives more accuracy, but the barrel would take a beating from the bullet's velocity, and you wouldn't want to sacrifice all the bullet's linear velocity for stablizing rotation. Going as fast as the .380 ACP slug would, a 1:12 RH twist would be enough to induce adequate gyroscopic forces.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:05 am

kthulhu wrote:Banning .50 caliber weapons is a stupid idea. The cheapest .50 BMG rifles are around $1500, and those are for the single shot bolt-action type. They can increase in price up to $7500 (for the Barret M82 semi-auto) or more. As far as criminal use goes, they're not used - they're too expensive to buy (and operate - .50 BMG rounds are $1 - $2 each), and too unwieldy.

heh, tell me about it ... In canada rationality is a new thing to anti-gun fanatics. IIRC a lot of .50 rifles are way too long and really heavy (easily past 30lbs). SOmething like that you take to a target range and punch paper at 600 yards, or more if you prefer.

Good 30-06 ammo (nosler partitions and the like) also costs about $1 - $1.50 a shot ... why am i bringing this up ... fucked if i know ... but then again these are canadien prices ...

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kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:37 am

My state is still pretty cool about firearms laws, in my opinion. High capacity magazines, no banned firearms (aside from those on the 1994 Crime Bill), and a fair amount of retailers.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:47 am

heh, high capacity magazines ... the closest thign we have to that is no limit to .22 rimfire rifle magazine sizes ... not a lot you can do with that, but still offers lots of plinking oppertunities.

but for what i do, i seldom need more then 1 shot. Exspecialy if it's with a shot gun, once i get warmed up i don't miss very often.

but yea ... canada has one thing to be "proud" of ... the biggest BS hand gun policy that punishes peopel who want to legaly use such guns. if you wish to you can problaby find canada's hand gun policy somewhere ... sad reading if you ask me.

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yuppa · Post by **yuppa** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:08 pm

Toecutter wrote:Hey Yuppa,

I thought you'd find the Calico SMG pretty amusing. It was developed in 1990, and the helical magazine (that's right, HELICAL, not circular or linear!) gives it the ability for the sub-machine pistol variant to carry 50 rounds easily. The magazine is that dorky cylinder mounted to the top of the weapon in the previously posted picture.

Nice to hear you're satisfied with the .380-.45 ACP catridge hybrid. Now that I think about it, the best rifling for the weapon would be a 1 in 12" RH twist. A 1 in 9" RH twist gives more accuracy, but the barrel would take a beating from the bullet's velocity, and you wouldn't want to sacrifice all the bullet's linear velocity for stablizing rotation. Going as fast as the .380 ACP slug would, a 1:12 RH twist would be enough to induce adequate gyroscopic forces.

Well that sounds good to me, mow i have to get estimates for it. And the Class 3 weapon the P 90? i would not try to get a legal one anyway, id go black market for one anyway. and mayby get it reworked a bit to fire a more conventional round. I thought about the smooth barrel first because the beating the rifling would get, that why i thought that. and i think if used under 100 yards it would pierce anything it hit and travel relatively straight. bu tany thing past 100? it would not do shit.