More gun talk, just for kicks!

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:38 am

TOW missiles are okay, but those crappy wires dragged behind the projectile for electro-optical guidance just get in the way, and gives you something else to lug around. The Stinger missile system is far superior, as long as you're targetting something via inferared. If you're talking passive guidance (just aiming with a telescopic or iron sights), the LAWS missile launcher is the way to go.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:56 am

Toecutter wrote:Can anyone get me a list of autoloading pistol cartridges with the same casing as a .22 WMR? I know the Ruger Single Six in .22LR comes with an interchangible cylinder to fire .22 WMR, and the barrel rifling works perfectly for both cartridges. From that information, it can be assumed a .22LR autoloader (like a Jennings J-22, for example) with a large enough frame could be machined to accept .22 WMR. The problem is fabricating all the blowback action crap to handle the pressures of a .22 Magnum, the bolt assembly, and new magazines.

<a href="http://www.reloadbench.com/cartspec.html">This</a> has some basic technical specs of most cartridges. Not sure how much help it'll be for what you're thinking of, though...

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:27 am

Kthulu, that's exactly what I've been looking for! Thanks for that link. Now only if I could find the .22 LR in that directory, I'd have all the information I'd need. I'll keep up the search through the .224 cartridges, and write back eventually.

Thanks again.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:37 am

El Banana wrote:Actually, I think the DA just looks soooo much better.

the desert eagle looks sharp, but i know it's not the best gun available. However i'm sure if your a gunsmith and you know what the hell your doing, you can probalby modify parts and make the desert eagle into a much better shooter. but at that point it would problaby look just like one of those Pro-Mod shooting competition guns ... which would totlay rob if ot it's sexy apearance, but allow you to shoot with amazing accuracy.

kthulhu wrote:A shotgun can become classified as an AOW if it has a barrel shorter than, I think, 16" or 18".

in canada any long arm with a barrle shorter then 18" would fall into this catagory, or actualy, it would problaby fall into the restricted or prohibited gun class. if it's restricted then you have to follow a bunch of gay gun control laws and go shoot only at your club. THey give you a route, and if your caught with that gun off that route your fucked.

If it would fall under the prohibited class ... then you'd have to be about 70 years old to even posses that gun, much like fully automaitc guns. Any one who owned a SMG before they passed that law prohibiting them is still allowed to posses that gun, provided that they don't allow their licence to expire ... which is why no one legitamatly owns one in canada. I think ... my knowledge in canadien gun laws is rusty, so lots of that can be wrong.

toecutter wrote:The Desert Eagle can't compare to the performance of the .475 Wildey Magnum. Is anyone going to give me some ballistics or tech to back up their claims of best gun, or are you going to just keep sending in pictures without doing your homework?

Inever said it was the best gun ... well not seriously at least. but it is my favorite hand gun ... even though it's for reasons as dumb as aesthetics. I used to know a site with lots of balistic info on the three common desert eagle chamber sizes. If i ever find it again i'll send it to you.

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Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:35 am

If you're looking for an accurate pistol used for shooting competitions, take a look at a Colt .38 Super autoloader. The .38 Super was based off of the .38 ACP (not the same thing as the .380 ACP), with a little more stopping power. Back in 1929, it was considered the most powerful handgun cartridge in the world, and used extensively by John Dillinger's gang (Leslie Homer told the Feds the .38 Super was one of the best handgun cartridges, especially for punching straight through police body armor).

Nowadays, the .38 Super is mostly used for national pistol competitions, because it uses the ol' accurate .355 caliber slug (as I have rambled on about over and over, so I won't repeat it again).

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:57 am

[quote="Toecutter"]

I still think the .222 (andother center fire .22 cartriges) is one of the most accurate cartridges available for civilian use. If you can consistantly put holes in ground hogs heads from a mile away with one of those then that has to say soemthing about the cartridge. but these are rifels, so i'm going off topic, i'm no hand gun expert so sorry.

But what i was saying is that i like the dessert eagle because a) it looks amazing, and b) it's a fucking .50 caliber hand gun ... though it's balisticaly inferior to lots of other cartriges it's still a bitching shell to use. Great for all your freudian over compensation needs.

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RedFusionX · Post by **RedFusionX** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 3:51 pm

Toecutter wrote: RedFusionX, I have to admit the Barrett M82A1 and the Springfield Armory M-1A Garand with external magazine (rather than the crappy 8-round clip I used in a WWII M-1) are decent weapons.

I guess you don't exactly know everything about guns, as that was not a M-1A Garand, try looking up the M-21 Sniper Rifle, very nice, and came out during Vietnam War to fill the need for a semi-automatic sniper rifle with extreme durability. It may resemble an M-14, as they used the same stock.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 4:10 pm

According to my favorite <a href="http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm">information site</a>:

About the M21:

"During the Vietnam War, US Army felt the demand for an accurate sniper rifle. The army accordingly selected then-standart M14 Semi-automatic rifle for its ability to provide a quick second shot. The Army marksmanship Unit was charged with tuning M14 into effective sniper rifle. This has been done with adding a modern telescopic sigth, named ART (Adjustable Rangig Telescopic) and by selecting rifles with the best accuracy. Adopted by US Army in 1971."

(Pardon the grammar and spelling - the site op is Russian)

So, the M21 is basically a souped up M14.

Springfield Armory's <a href="http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- ... shtml">M21 info</a>.

Springfield Armory's <a href="http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- ... tml">rifle products'</a>.

Both RedFusionX and Toecutter seem to be correct.

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:29 am

I'm sorry, RedFusionX, but Kthulu is right! You can clearly tell by the magazine and upper receiver the M21 sniper rifle is an M-1A/M-14 rifle with a different name. That's why I "mistook" it for an M-1A. The only thing that designates the M-14 from the M-1A, is the fact the M-14 is a selective fire weapon with a burst and fully automatic mode. The M-1A is strictly semi-auto. I believe the M-14 is still used by the military (you'd know more about this than I would), but only in a limited role, and is usually used less often than the M-1A.

Check out http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/ for more fun specs. This is probably all review, but it's too much fun to find these websites.

As for rifle cartridges, the .22LR is definately not accurate! The most accurate round I can get for my Ruger 10/22 is CCI's Mini-Mag JHP high velocity round: 1280 fps muzzle velocity, with a 3.5" drop @ 100 yards). Match-grade competition ammo for the .22LR is just as accurate as the high velocity JHP stuff, but has far less stopping power, and costs a lot more. Any .22LR round that fits into a 2" grouping at 100 yards is considered incredibly accurate (the Ruger 10/22 manages this, but I have yet to do it, because my hands shake too much).

The .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO) is pretty good, but the most accurate rifle round to date would have to be the .50 BMG. Carlos Hathcock, the famous Marine Corps scout/sniper in Vietnam, once mounted a telescopic sight to a Ma Deuce (.50 BMG Browning machine gun), and took out a target just over a mile and a half away, setting a world record. The most accurate, widely available round cheap enough to regularly practice with would have to be the .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO).

As for handguns, the most accurate round I've studied would have to be the .454 Casull (now the second-most powerful handgun cartridge in the world, falling behind to the Smith and Wesson .500 Magnum). Of course, if you don't want twice to three times the recoil energy of a 12 gauge shotgun concentrated in your right wrist, maybe you should hold off on the .454 Casull, and stick with a .475 Wildey Magnum, or, dare I say, the .50 Action Express?

yuppa · Post by **yuppa** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:42 pm

Cutter? can you make a custom bullet say taking the 50 caliber shell and putting the 38 calber bullet onto it? if so can ya give a guess ass to the velocity for one in a modified Uzi? with smoooth bore? I have been wanting to see if i could get someone to design a custom HV armor piercer and was curious if ya though it be possible.