A Frame-Number Database...

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
Locked
User avatar
yprbest
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:24 am
Location: Newport, South Wales (UK)
Contact:
Org Profile

A Frame-Number Database...

Post by yprbest » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:37 pm

...would it be a good idea to perhaps start one up?

I know that a lot of people who make AMV's keep a record of the various useful scenes, by frame number, that they've considered using. Now, obviously, the descriptions they give them would be specific to their own uses, but it could still be useful to have these made available to all the AMV makers out there.

Assuming there isn't anything similar already, would it not be possible for someone (perhaps this very site) to host a comprehensive frame-number database? I realise that there would be many difficulties to overcome; the various different sources people use could lead to inconsistencies in frame numbers, so there would have to be strict guidelines in effect (and perhaps some sort of comment system so that people could warn of innacuracies), plus of course it would require a little extra effort on the AMV makers' part for them to post their frame-number lists, but given enough time and care it could become an invaluable asset to the AMV making universe.

So, does anyone have any opinions on this? Has it already been done, is it completely unworkable, or does it have any possible merit? Apologies if it's a stupid idea on my part, but I'd like to think that it was do-able!

User avatar
AbsoluteDestiny
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:56 pm
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by AbsoluteDestiny » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:46 pm

I'm not sure it would be of any use for all sorts of reasons:

How do you know that people have sourced the footage the same way? If they are dvd users then they may be ripping by chapter or in file mode. If they are capture card users then a timecode would be much more useful. What about IVTC, that changes the frame number, is that taken into account?

Then there's the part about who is actually going to want to spend time collecting this info? I just dont think it will actually be that useful.

User avatar
yprbest
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:24 am
Location: Newport, South Wales (UK)
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by yprbest » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:37 pm

Mmm, I realise that there would be many technical problems with it, hence my worries about it being unworkable. I was rather assuming that a strict system would have to be enforced, i.e. limiting the database simply to DVD rips using a particular method, and I can see that this would make it even less likely for people to submit their lists. But still I hoped - pointlessly, of course - that there might be some way that it might work; as a non-techy person I was just hoping someone more versed in the art would confirm or allay my hopes - as you have.

Never mind, eh!

[PS - I didn't expect any individual to collect it by themselves, but was rather musing whether a group effort might work, with an open submissions policy of sorts - but as you've shown it would simply not work that way. Sorry!]

User avatar
dokool
Sir Gaijin Smash
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:12 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by dokool » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:34 pm

The way I'd see it work is that it would base the framecount off the DVD, before any IVTCing. Each user could submit their 'catalogue' of scenes on a DVD (i.e. the start- and end- frames of scenes that they've catalogued).

Now, this would all be pretty pointless unless you had this: a DVD ripper that incorporated the database. I could see you doing the following:

1. Insert End of Evangelion DVD
2. Load DVD-Scene-Ripper
3. DVD-Scene-Ripper checks online server, updates its catalogue database
4. DVD-Scene-Ripper verifies DVD
5. DVD-Scene-Ripper gives you a list of catalogues that people have made for EoE
6. You browse catalogues, looking for the scenes you want to rip, checking them as you go along.
7. Hit a "Rip" button, DVD-Scene-Ripper goes through the DVD, ripping frame-specific scenes to the harddrive.

So this isn't *completely* useless, it would just need a lot more behind it.

User avatar
dokool
Sir Gaijin Smash
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:12 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by dokool » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:39 pm

More musings on how the 'catalogue' system could be used:

Basically, what you would have is a giant database with user-submitted catalogues. This could be "Scenes I Used In My AMV," which would make it easy for someone looking for so-and-so scene but just can't find it on the DVD.

...<i>or</i>, it could be themed catalogues. People recording scenes based on certain concepts, like scenery shots, shots with little/no action, romantic scenes, scenes involving two characters (Arigatomina would love this, make a catalogue of your favorite male pairing for an instant slash video!), etc.

User avatar
Kalium
Sir Bugsalot
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:17 pm
Location: Plymouth, Michigan
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kalium » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:42 pm

It would be real easy for some of us, since certain editing progs will parse a file for scene changes.

User avatar
jasper-isis
P. Y. T.
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:02 am
Status: catching all the lights
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by jasper-isis » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:38 pm

The potential problem is that we could end up with tons of videos that vary little in scene selection. Every series already has its set of commonly-used scenes. Such a database may encourage people to oversuse these even more.

I personally think it would be more helpful to have a database of optimal deinterlacing scripts. This could prove beneficial for both tricky old DVD sources, like Evangelion, and new sources, which seem to be becoming increasingly hybrid these days.
Image

User avatar
SarahtheBoring
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 11:45 am
Location: PA, USA
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by SarahtheBoring » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:39 pm

Frame number? I'd be happy with a list of episodes and summaries/notable scenes. "#8 is the one with the New Year's dreams, 11 is where Kagura scares off all the cats." I do this for myself with just about every series I work with, because of my horrible visual memory. I have Utena color-coded, in Excel, by subplot. :lol: There are episode guides out there sometimes, but I usually really want to know which episode had the part where [blah blah blah], and it's usually not worth bothering people for case by case.

Timestamps, I can even see, but I don't see why it'd be necessary to go down to frame number. That kinda... makes it too specific, besides. "USE FRAME 2349. ALL OF YOU." Ehhh.

User avatar
dokool
Sir Gaijin Smash
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:12 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by dokool » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:47 pm

Jasper-Isis wrote:I personally think it would be more helpful to have a database of optimal deinterlacing scripts. This could prove beneficial for both tricky old DVD sources, like Evangelion, and new sources, which seem to be becoming increasingly hybrid these days.
This is actually a really great idea. Although with Evangelion Platinum coming out, that show isn't as big an issue...

trythil
is
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:54 am
Status: N͋̀͒̆ͣ͋ͤ̍ͮ͌ͭ̔̊͒ͧ̿
Location: N????????????????
Org Profile

Post by trythil » Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:15 am

Jasper-Isis wrote: I personally think it would be more helpful to have a database of optimal deinterlacing scripts. This could prove beneficial for both tricky old DVD sources, like Evangelion, and new sources, which seem to be becoming increasingly hybrid these days.
http://yipdw-4.student.rose-hulman.edu/amvwiki

No, this isn't just self-advertisement. This is the kind of stuff that a wiki is supposed to support,

User avatar
pen-pen2002
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:39 pm
Location: Grinnell, IA Procrastination Meter: Code Lemon-Lime
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by pen-pen2002 » Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:08 pm

Hey why stop there?

If all the scenes are coded and cross referenced why not just make a program that rips the selected clips, organizes them by theme, matches them to the lyrics of the song off an online database and applys default transitions.

Then you hit the "Create AMV" button...

:roll:
Image

User avatar
yprbest
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:24 am
Location: Newport, South Wales (UK)
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by yprbest » Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:19 pm

Well, I'm pleasantly surprised that some people have managed to see some worth in the idea, though I can still see that it's a deeply flawed idea, but I didn't really think that your (pen-pen2002) dig at it was very fair; I mean, a list of frames is hardly taking away from the creativity of the piece, just making it easier to find the scenes you're looking for.

Would you also prefer for everyone to dump their editing software and reverted instead to basic linear editing, using trial and error cutting and pasting of clips with sound?

User avatar
tuathaanwarrior
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: Columbia, Maryland
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by tuathaanwarrior » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:23 pm

In my opinion, scene selection is one of the driving factors in AMVs. Having such a database would most likely take a lot away from that. As Jasper-Isis said, if such a database existed, I know that most ppl would rather just use the scenes found in it than actually looking for their own. As was said in the first post, creators keep track of scenes they had considered using, so a database like that would end up being a list of recommended amv scenes.

Ignoring that, from a practical standpoint, what kind of descriptions would there be for the different frames that are listed. If the descriptions were too long, or selected frames were too close, how much time would you actually save? If the descriptions were too short, or the selected frames were too far, how much would it help you find the desired scene?

Also, if this was the kind of thing where people just submit what they have, how would keep descriptions consistent and how would make sure that you dont have overlap. What if Person A had something starting on frame 234, and person B had something starting on frame 235? Would having that save time? On the other extreme, what if Scene A started at frame 3, and the scene in the database started on frame 10003?

Ultimately i dont think this idea could practically be applied, and if it could, i dont think it would really help a lot.

User avatar
pen-pen2002
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:39 pm
Location: Grinnell, IA Procrastination Meter: Code Lemon-Lime
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by pen-pen2002 » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:17 am

yprbest wrote:but I didn't really think that your (pen-pen2002) dig at it was very fair; I mean, a list of frames is hardly taking away from the creativity of the piece, just making it easier to find the scenes you're looking for.
Oh I wasn't really trying to be negitive... just making a joke.

But in all seriousness, scene similarity is a significant problem in AMV's. I sometimes watch an AMV and think, Oh, I've never seen that scene before, very interesting. On the other hand I once downloaded 3 love hina romance videos and found a greater than 50% corolation in footage. Eva is a very long series but certain clips are used over and over and over again.



There is a real world equivilent to this idea though.
The Movie Archive

You can search all of these movies (non copyrighted) by scene. They even have editable HQ versions.

So you can type in "washer" and find creative commons videos that have a washer in them.
Image

raibesh
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:40 am
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by raibesh » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:04 pm

You can search all of these movies (non copyrighted) by scene.
Does the Internet Archive actually have scene-specific metadata?

Locked

Return to “General AMV”