Which would you rather opinionate: Good or Newbish?

madbunny · Post by **madbunny** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:08 pm

Having been giving free ops thread in the Ops forum (actually several simultaneous threads with different rules), I noticed a large uh... variance in the relative quality of the videos from members. This goes for new and old timers as well.

So, when you are doing a review, would you rather do one on a technically excellent video that flows off the screen like a pure heavenly glow, or one with glaring technical and timing errors?

While the superior video is easier on the eyes, I always feel like I have to look for little nitpicky stuff, just to justify it as a review: (example)
1:27 "she winks" lyric - She didn't wink
quality: your black levels were at 92% of pure, meaning that the video could have had more contrast thus showing your color palatte better.

Whereas with the lower quality ones you wonder if your feedback is going to waste: (another weak example)
1:30-2:00 - You used an entire uncut 30 seconds of the original anime here with no editing whatsoever
quality: All those lines at the edges of your characters are interlacing artifacts. (link to guide) There are many ways to clean it up. (link to interlacing information)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know, it just feel weird offering technical opinions to people who are in some ways much better at editing than you. It's like telling an athlete how to improve his game from your couch.

Maybe it's just me. I know that some of the 'higher scoring' reviews that I've given recently have been technical masterpeices (Four of them tied at second with a score of 9.17) that I had to really look to find anything that looked remotely like it could have been improved. Some of my top ten have almost no effects in them, just a mastery of timing and metaphor.

On the flip side, none of the videos that got a score of less than 7.5 (many) have replies in the comments. I figured these would be the ones that could use the most in terms of improvement, and thus would be the most amenable to honest feedback instead of the usual "duuuuude awesome video" that they seem to crave.
Yet it seems to be just the reverse.

------------

So long and short of it:
What sort of reviews to people like to get?
What is a "perfect" format for a review on your video?

inthesto · Post by **inthesto** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:14 pm

I find it more difficult to leave opinions for better videos than for worse ones, frankly.

I mean, when I see a video with spot-on timing, perfect video and audio, and a well-executed concept, there's nothing for me to say beyond "duuuuude awesome video." With those kinds of videos, I know the editor went to hell and back timing and getting everything right, so s/he probably already knows what worked and what didn't.

It's the editors who make videos that need work that need the ops the most, but seem to get them the least. They're the ones who need pointing out as to what went wrong and what went right; they're the ones who need to know how to improve. I put myself in this category.

Personally, I want to kick the ass of any guy who leaves an opinion that amounts to "Here, have some 10s and a NICE JOB!"

inthesto · Post by **inthesto** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:17 pm

Oh, and to answer your two questions directly:

"What sort of reviews to people like to get?"

Ones with substance. I don't care if the opinion is overall positive or negative, but tell me [b]what[/b] was good or bad. My timing was off? My use of filters was good? TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME.

"What is a "perfect" format for a review on your video?"

To me, it doesn't really matter as long as the point gets across. Apparently, a lot of people like to break it into the opinion categories, but I personally just write my thoughts as they flow.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:17 pm

What ops do I like to get?

Obviously, good, high-mark ops!

Other than that, technical stuff is good to nitpick errors, though I'm even more interested what they thought of certain things on the vid on artistic levels, etc.

But detail is always nice.

***

As for what sort I like to give - in the middle. I usually don't give ops to good vids that aren't easily criticizeable - unless I totally dig them, in which case it's at least justified to write a whole bunch of compliments and point to the highlights, and give them high marks and shower them with prades as just reward.

But then I also try not to op vids that are just too basic. It just feels like I might seem mean with my criticism, while the creator would simply learn through guides and practice anyway.

In the middle though, there's a sweet spot where you can have nice videos with lots of things you can address and be useful in that; while at the same time, there's enough high points and good things to praise.

I like balance, that's all.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:20 pm

Otohiko wrote:shower them with praise as just reward.

Typos galore

Although to note, the kind of stuff that you mentioned for the first example sounds like things I would write in what I consider 'medium/good' vids....

Calim · Post by **Calim** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:31 pm

Both because if we don't opinionate on the wee ones and give them advice then they don't get better and people will keep complaining about them being horrible at it.

godix · Post by **godix** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:55 pm

I find the my ops are geared towards newbies or those that I can actually help in some way. I won't give ops to those I consider great videos because there's really nothing I can say about it. My own personal experience is that while it's nice to get 'dude that's great' ops (not that I'm good enough to get those frequently) they're quickly forgotten. I've decided give the type of op I'd like to recieve and I like constructive critism that tells me exactly why I suck and how to improve. My complaint isn't sitting through videos with huge technical problems, my complaint is that the type of creator who's new enough to need my help is also new enough to think a Naruto or DBZ fight video is great and I personally hate those. Regardless of that I noticed that when I offered free ops most of the videos were good enough that I didn't regret offering free ops. Several were even suprisingly well done vids that I kept around and would not have seen otherwise. Enough were good enough that I think next time I bother to change my sig I'll follow Scintilla's lead and start pimping other people in addition to myself.

I also note that out of the roughly twenty videos I oped in that thread only one person didn't reply. Maybe it's a difference in the ground rules, I made damned sure that I warned people to begin with that I usually give below average score and I focus on points that can be improved so perhaps I scared away those who were only after the score or ego boost (although I did get one "i'm insulted" reply that I can only assume is because I didn't jack off his ego). That would just leave people who are actually interested in how I think they could improve and I guess the person interested in improvement is more likely to respond.

That said, the one person who impresses me the most about responding is Koop. 500+ reviews and he replied to them all. Even though it was a form reply it still must have taken him almost as long to reply to everything as it took to make Euphoria to begin with. I actually feel somewhat guilty about giving him a short two paragraph 'damn that's good' opinion (it was the first op I ever gave). I'm occasionally tempted to go re-write that but there's still nothing I can say that the other 500+ people didn't already say better.

pen-pen2002 · Post by **pen-pen2002** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:12 pm

I find it's not so much the quality of the vid that effects me as the style. A straight action vid is much harder for me to op than a more artistic one. I find I'm nitpicky enough to have a lot of detailed points even on great vids, whereas with vids that aren't as good I tend to be more broad.

I try to give reviews that cover both specific things as well as larger issues so my ops tend to take a long time and be pretty detailed. Personally I don't see the point in giving a "dude etc." op (although geting them can be nice just for a score boost

) I think that if you put enough thought and effort into an op it doesn't matter if the creator is five hundred times better than you. Even If you can't make a vid as good as the one your opping, you still are an experienced viewer.

As far as perfect formats, there is none. Or rather, there is not any one format that is perfect for all videos. On my free ops thread I used a ton of different formats, depends on the video. In general though I try to always have a section explaining scores and a timing breakdown section.

Otohiko wrote:
Otohiko wrote:shower them with praise as just reward.
Typos galore

Man, I was hoping you meant "parades."

J-0080 · Post by **J-0080** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:27 pm

pen-pen2002 wrote:
Otohiko wrote:
Otohiko wrote:shower them with praise as just reward.
Typos galore
Man, I was hoping you meant "parades."

Ditto, actually.

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:50 pm

godix wrote:Enough were good enough that I think next time I bother to change my sig I'll follow Scintilla's lead and start pimping other people in addition to myself.

All right! Trendage!

As for what kind of ops I like:... well, I'll be the first to admit that I really like getting high-scoring ops, because I worry too much about scores and such. I'm not likely to appreciate ops that nitpick technical points, because most of the time, I'm already aware of whatever issue the person's talking about, and telling me about it again won't help.

I guess that means I'd better appreciate ops that talk about the concept and flow and what I could have done to improve those, but I don't remember getting too many of those...

And I've found that, much of the time, I'll only bother to reply to opinions that actually have some substance to them. Do people really care that much about getting replies? I don't.