The New Way Of Multiple-Author AMV Project

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danielwang
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The New Way Of Multiple-Author AMV Project

Post by danielwang » Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:51 pm

AMV Project Management... the fancy way.

Sure, you can always do a multiple author AMV the old fashioned way, email and CD-ROMs through the mail, but why not use a commercial-style PLM project managament software system? Here's a database schema I thought up for AMV creators.

Each project has, say, around 3-5 developers. Each developers is responsible for maintaining consistency internally within the project and influceces the entire product, however one person usually specializes in one aspect. The system runs off a NON-MySQL database (a must for videos over 65535 frames) which is structured based on the development model you are choosing. A project "manager"-type of person is not needed, usually the members on a project sign up after hearing about a video they were thinking of doing too.

The product development system is similar to one cycle of Scrum or XP development, however the ENTIRE video is considered simultaneously. AMV dev is harder than coding since you can't modulize it. The database, once split up in the proper schema, is updated via a WEb interface.

Example development scenario:

Daniel Wang, Yachi Shotaro and Dr. Eric Amundson are working on a new video. Let's say that we decide to do the video in phases and the database schema is split up into author dimensions relative to phase dimensions and measured in frames.

You can run the conceptualize, timing and creatice phases concurrently.
Each author can use a Web-based interface or parsed EDL upload to check in and check out timelines with marks on them. Each author can add marks, add comments to marks, comment on other author's ideas, and add tags which indicate tools. You can run any phase concurrently by splitting the comment data up into metafield which use timed relative descriptors to organize data. Shotaro can add timeline markers while Eric drags and drops movie clips that Daniel ripped. Perfect timing.

The production phase is simply any other phase model with extra datatags on the times relative descriptor. By using the Web interface or EDL upload, source datatags can store author recommended source footage and effects. See notes on the database dimensional schema below.

An example of what a timed relative datatag descriptor can store:
danielwang, on main project, frames 0 to 77 (audio 0m0s to 0m3.2s)
Mood_Scheme: Perfect for a slow opening, introduction to the setting (Gaea)
Audio: Windy, whispering sounds. background ambient music?
Audio.Effects: Logarithmically ramp up the sound...
Audio.Data: <a = { makelouder("<a:0.0,0;0.3,2",5); }
Video: Looks like Van is reflecting or thinking (notice leaves blowing past)
Video.Effects: Depth of field to blur, black and white background
Video.Data <v = blackwhite ( blur ( "Escaflowne_Vol2_Ep6: frame 1992 to 2069" ); );

The database can be configure to reference objects in hierarchial order by any dimension, as long as unique names are used. That way, danielwang.segment1.comments.audio is the same as segment1.audo.comments.danielwang, which is really useful for report generation.

Once the dimension lookup schema is set up in the database, web-based plugins can be added to do project segment "CheckIn" "CheckOut" and Dynamic Relative Preview, meaning an author could click on a link to preview the AMV, dynamically based on other author's ideas. You could click a button to see it Shotaro's way, another to see it Eric's way. A simple click and the lens flares are turned off.

Another datatag I forgot to include - the ability to preview segments and comment on why (an author's recommendation of) an effect or footage is appropriate or should be revised. Most corporate PLM software has "Approval" features with functionality to email authors with comments automatically (though they should be active on the site). Remember that system of being able to reference the database object by any order of dimensions? Get a copy of Crystal Reports and ASP.NET, and your web reporting interface is done.

In the testing and preproduction phase, viewers can be assigned UserIDs and access to the project timeline, where they too can dynamically preview release candidates, add comments and recommend changes. It could be the difference between flame and fame (TM).



With software based CVS-style EDL diffing, a project of monumental proportions can be efficiently developed without problems of conflicting styles or repeated work A person assigned to transcript synchrinized lyrics can upload them to through the Internet, where the server would parse the data and put it in a database schema dimension for vieweing by all. Want to download a project timeline with Daniel and Eric's timeline markers, but not those from Shotaro? Hit the checkout button and you're done.

Once I finish learning VB and .NET, code this and get it accepted in the AMV community, it should be perfectly feasible to do a AMV project with 7 different authors around the world and still make it seamlessly integrate.



No more videos that look like Open Source. Say you have a system of freeze framing on a cymbal clap - if the next creator doesn't use that, it ruins the continuity just like GPL-ed software. Not anymore!


IMAGE ATTACHED
Image

Should be easy enough to do with .NET software and AVISynth.
After all, most Edit Decision Lists are XML, aren't they?
<a href="http://www.animetheory.com/" title="AnimeTheory" class="gensmall">AnimeTheory.</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/search/ ... %20park%22" title="Seach videos NOT by danielwang" class="gen">Make sure you don't download videos that suck!</a>

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Post by NME » Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:58 pm

Thus defeating all creative work and making AMV's as bland and retarded as coding.

Good job. Nothing else can be said about how pathetic this is that hasn't already been said.

Trythil is just gonna make you look like an idiot again.

Why bother.
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danielwang
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Post by danielwang » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:48 pm

NME wrote:Thus defeating all creative work and making AMV's as bland and retarded as coding.

Good job. Nothing else can be said about how pathetic this is that hasn't already been said.

Trythil is just gonna make you look like an idiot again.

Why bother.

Image
<a href="http://www.animetheory.com/" title="AnimeTheory" class="gensmall">AnimeTheory.</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/search/ ... %20park%22" title="Seach videos NOT by danielwang" class="gen">Make sure you don't download videos that suck!</a>

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Post by NME » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:50 pm

...... I didn't know premiere or you know, everything else thats used to edit was open source.

OMG. It's not.
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Re: The New Way Of Multiple-Author AMV Project

Post by trythil » Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:16 pm

Consistency is easy enough to attain by giving people a small set of guidelines for video formatting. The old-fashioned way has worked for:

- Mission:Improbable 1 and 2
- Animix part 1 (and future parts, I assume)
- DDR1, DDR2, and it will work for DDR3

Why fix what's not broken?

--

Addressing every other point:

It is neat to be able to view multiple versions of a video. It is very helpful to be able to receive comments on them.

This task, fortunately, is handled easily enough by two things called "FTP" and "e-mail".

What your schema assumes is that everyone uses the same tools -- and that just isn't true. M:I consisted of at least three editing platforms that I know of -- Adobe Premiere, Ulead VideoStudio, and Magix Music Maker. Animix and DDR projects have a similar mix of editing systems.

With that in mind, the best way to leave comments on tracks, ideas, and stuff is the old-fashioned "upload a track, e-mail me comments on it" way.

By the way, MySQL supports tables that are far larger than 65,535 rows. Trust me, I've done it before.
Once I finish learning VB and .NET, code this and get it accepted in the AMV community, it should be perfectly feasible to do a AMV project with 7 different authors around the world and still make it seamlessly integrate.
It's already feasible to do AMV projects with 50+ authors.

http://ddr.otakuvideo.com

Or, even better, Erwan's Animix project, which has around 100 authors:

http://amvdefans.com.rya-network.com/

Why do we need this level of complexity when it's obvious that existing tools scale just fine?
No more videos that look like Open Source. Say you have a system of freeze framing on a cymbal clap - if the next creator doesn't use that, it ruins the continuity just like GPL-ed software. Not anymore!
I resent that. "always" was made with GPLed software, and is an Otakon 2003 finalist video.

But hey...what do I know...

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Post by trythil » Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:20 pm

By the way, MySQL supports tables that are far larger than 65,535 rows. Trust me, I've done it before.
Actually, don't take my word for it -- just look around this site...it's using tables well over 100,000 rows, and even that's still pretty small...

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Post by Dannywilson » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:05 pm

I'll continue to run my projects the old fashioned way. People get confused easily by something this daunting, in addition to the fact that not everyone uses Premiere, some use magix, some use ulead, and I even had one use Cinelerra I believe.
Danielwang wrote:No more videos that look like Open Source. Say you have a system of freeze framing on a cymbal clap - if the next creator doesn't use that, it ruins the continuity just like GPL-ed software. Not anymore!
As the director of a MMEAMV, I resent that comment, and I hope you have the balls to back it up if it comes down to the wire. Part of the coolness about projects like M:I and Animix are the different styles of editing between one part and the next, and the chaotic nature that keeps people entertained and wondering "Whats gonna happen next?"

Another thing. I don't want my editors watching the whole video before it's completed. I usally host a beta when all parts have been uploaded to let the creators tell me if their part is off synchronization, if so, I then go back and fix it.

I dare you to run a project like you've set up, with 20+ editors and watch how fast it falls to the ground. My money is on less than a month.
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Post by NME » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:19 pm

Thus defeating all creative work and making AMV's as bland and retarded as coding.

Exactly what I said,
making one set guideline is retarded, because then it all becomes akin to artsists trying to draw in a certain style.

It's called being a retard.
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danielwang
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Post by danielwang » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:22 pm

Dannywilson wrote:I'll continue to run my projects the old fashioned way. People get confused easily by something this daunting, in addition to the fact that not everyone uses Premiere, some use magix, some use ulead, and I even had one use Cinelerra I believe.
Wow, that's a lot.

It'll take forever to find translate between Adobe ASP and MGX files.
I guess the parsed upload system won't work then.

Of course, that's why corporate envoronments always have software continuity, ala Use MS Word Or Else.
Dannywilson wrote:
Danielwang wrote:No more videos that look like Open Source. Say you have a system of freeze framing on a cymbal clap - if the next creator doesn't use that, it ruins the continuity just like GPL-ed software. Not anymore!
As the director of a MMEAMV, I resent that comment, and I hope you have the balls to back it up if it comes down to the wire. Part of the coolness about projects like M:I and Animix are the different styles of editing between one part and the next, and the chaotic nature that keeps people entertained and wondering "Whats gonna happen next?"
Yes, that's true, and I do enjoy videos like that. It's like watching 20 quick videos in a row that work into one.

The video I was trying to envision was a 20-author studio-based video where you really couldn't tell the difference between one author and the other.
Dannywilson wrote:Another thing. I don't want my editors watching the whole video before it's completed. I usally host a beta when all parts have been uploaded to let the creators tell me if their part is off synchronization, if so, I then go back and fix it.
I really don't get this, though it's apparent you have much more experience than I do.

If that's the case, then that defeats the entire purpose of collaboration.
Dannywilson wrote:I dare you to run a project like you've set up, with 20+ editors and watch how fast it falls to the ground. My money is on less than a month.
I just had *another* brilliant, but simple, idea for doing concurrent-stage design conferencing!

Send out preproduction DVDs.
Put all of the AMV authors on a conference phone call.
Talk about it.
<a href="http://www.animetheory.com/" title="AnimeTheory" class="gensmall">AnimeTheory.</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/search/ ... %20park%22" title="Seach videos NOT by danielwang" class="gen">Make sure you don't download videos that suck!</a>

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Post by trythil » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:32 pm

danielwang wrote:
Dannywilson wrote:Another thing. I don't want my editors watching the whole video before it's completed. I usally host a beta when all parts have been uploaded to let the creators tell me if their part is off synchronization, if so, I then go back and fix it.
I really don't get this, though it's apparent you have much more experience than I do.

If that's the case, then that defeats the entire purpose of collaboration.
The points of collaboration in an multi-editor AMV are:

(1) to have fun
(2) bounce ideas off each other
(3) to have fun
(4) to make a really big AMV
(5) to have fun
(6) to sit back and enjoy whatever the end product will be
(7) to have fun

While it might be interesting to see a multi-editor project that flowed in the same technical fashion from start to end, I have to agree that it is highly likely that it would become very bland very quickly.

Not to mention that forcing a similar style to all editors does not work well with points #1, #3, #5, and #7.

However, consistency isn't always a bad thing: a multi-editor AMV that told a consistent story from start to finish...now THAT would be entertaining, I'd think.

By the way, I find it funny that you're blasting GPLed software on a site that is powered by GPLed software. Biting the hand that feeds you...

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