Im going to edit an AMV on VHS with a setup that cost over $25,000 in the 90's

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You Know Who really
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Re: Im going to edit an AMV on VHS with a setup that cost over $25,000 in the 90's

Post by You Know Who really » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:37 pm

Ok so in reading through this post I have a few comments.

I "Grew Up" working with this type of equipment. Meaning I got a job at a Linear Post production house 1 year out of high school back in 1985. I wasn't a video engineer, but I was familiar with the theory of how things worked. So if there are any engineers out there then please correct any mistakes I make. I have worked with 1",Betacam, DVCAM, DVCPRO, M1, M2, 3/4", SVHS, VHS, CMX Editors, Grass Valley Switchers, Various DVE's, etc.

Please excuse me if I say something that has already been addressed.
1) The signal generator that you have is used to...well...generate signals, such as Bars, Black, and Black Burst. Now Black burst is designed to sync up the video signals of the decks so that you can use them with the switcher. It does not sync up the tapes. What you are thinking of is time code, which brings me to point 2
2) It looks like you are using control track for editing and NOT time code. Now control track is a LOT more accurate than just hitting PLAY manually and hoping that everything syncs up, but it still tends to drift. Time code is VERY Accurate, as it involves laying a timecode audio track on the tape itself. So that even if you take the tape out and put it back in the frame that was 00:29:30:15 before is still that same time code. Now to get timecode you need a time code generator. Then you can dub your source tapes to a B-ROLL tape and lay down time code at the same time. Now I "think" S-VHS Deck actually had a time code IN- so it would record to an actual time code track. If not then you could record timecode to channel 2. I know this sucks as you lose a track of audio, but it is more accurate.

Now what I would suggest is that you "Black & Code" your record tape. This involves Sending a black signal and Timecode( usually starting at 00:00:00:00 ) to the tape and recording the whole tape. You can then edit to a tape that has a continuous black and unbroken time code.

3) I think you need to get 1 more deck so that you can do dissolves. Right now with 2 decks, you can only do cuts only editing. Unless you go from a freeze or background.

I hope this helps. Any questions let me know.
I still don't know why anyone would WANT to go back to linear editing. ;)

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Kionon
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Re: Im going to edit an AMV on VHS with a setup that cost over $25,000 in the 90's

Post by Kionon » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:57 pm

You Know Who really wrote:Ok so in reading through this post I have a few comments.
I hope this helps. Any questions let me know.
I still don't know why anyone would WANT to go back to linear editing. ;)
This is the quality AMV content I come here for. :amv:
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That YouTube Thing.

justin_
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Re: Im going to edit an AMV on VHS with a setup that cost over $25,000 in the 90's

Post by justin_ » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:52 am

You Know Who really wrote:Ok so in reading through this post I have a few comments.
...
1) The signal generator that you have is used to...well...generate signals, such as Bars, Black, and Black Burst. Now Black burst is designed to sync up the video signals of the decks so that you can use them with the switcher. It does not sync up the tapes. What you are thinking of is time code, which brings me to point 2
2) It looks like you are using control track for editing and NOT time code. Now control track is a LOT more accurate than just hitting PLAY manually and hoping that everything syncs up, but it still tends to drift. Time code is VERY Accurate, as it involves laying a timecode audio track on the tape itself. So that even if you take the tape out and put it back in the frame that was 00:29:30:15 before is still that same time code. Now to get timecode you need a time code generator. Then you can dub your source tapes to a B-ROLL tape and lay down time code at the same time. Now I "think" S-VHS Deck actually had a time code IN- so it would record to an actual time code track. If not then you could record timecode to channel 2. I know this sucks as you lose a track of audio, but it is more accurate.

Now what I would suggest is that you "Black & Code" your record tape. This involves Sending a black signal and Timecode( usually starting at 00:00:00:00 ) to the tape and recording the whole tape. You can then edit to a tape that has a continuous black and unbroken time code.

3) I think you need to get 1 more deck so that you can do dissolves. Right now with 2 decks, you can only do cuts only editing. Unless you go from a freeze or background.

I hope this helps. Any questions let me know.
I still don't know why anyone would WANT to go back to linear editing. ;)
1) That definitely sounds more accurate. I was just trying to give my best guess as to what may be going on.
2)The decks I am using do have a timecode in on them. I will ask around at work to see if there is a timecode generator laying around, they should know what I am looking for. I kinda have an idea, but the internet really does not have much information on linear editing, let alone the more hidden tricks (aka proper setup) of it. That is part of the reason I am doing this, I want to put some information online about it.

3)As far as 3 goes the edit deck manual claims that it can do a-b edits in two separate goes, first with the A tape, then second with the B tape, but yes I do want to get my hands on another deck. There is likely one at work, but it is in an offsite storage unit if they have it and people don't often go there. I would go there myself but I don't have a car :P.

Hopefully I will make some progress soon, but at the same time school has started up and I have almost no time to do stuff like this.

Like I said I want to do this to get some information out there about this era of video editing, not just for AMVs, but for anything really. I think that I may start a YouTube series of me setting up and attempting to use this stuff. In addition to that, i've always loved old AV gear and I kinda just want to play with it and see what it was like. Of course it is more limited and challenging, but that is part of the fun :)

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You Know Who really
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Re: Im going to edit an AMV on VHS with a setup that cost over $25,000 in the 90's

Post by You Know Who really » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:30 pm

justin_ wrote: 1) That definitely sounds more accurate. I was just trying to give my best guess as to what may be going on.
2)The decks I am using do have a timecode in on them. I will ask around at work to see if there is a timecode generator laying around, they should know what I am looking for. I kinda have an idea, but the internet really does not have much information on linear editing, let alone the more hidden tricks (aka proper setup) of it. That is part of the reason I am doing this, I want to put some information online about it.

3)As far as 3 goes the edit deck manual claims that it can do a-b edits in two separate goes, first with the A tape, then second with the B tape, but yes I do want to get my hands on another deck. There is likely one at work, but it is in an offsite storage unit if they have it and people don't often go there. I would go there myself but I don't have a car :P.

Hopefully I will make some progress soon, but at the same time school has started up and I have almost no time to do stuff like this.

Like I said I want to do this to get some information out there about this era of video editing, not just for AMVs, but for anything really. I think that I may start a YouTube series of me setting up and attempting to use this stuff. In addition to that, i've always loved old AV gear and I kinda just want to play with it and see what it was like. Of course it is more limited and challenging, but that is part of the fun :)
OK great. So if your deck has time code then it has its own timecode generator. so all you hve to do is "dub" your footage from the original tape to another tape in the SVHS deck. It should generate its own timecode as you record to it. Then use the dub as your source. It should have timecode on the tape. I know that means going down a generation but it is more accurate.

How many decks do you have in total? I thought I saw only 2 decks. (1 playback and 1 record) if you have 3 decks then yes you can do dissolves. 2 playback and 1 record. The only way to do a 1 deck dissolve was with pre-read. But that was only available starting with Digi-Beta.

Anyway Good luck. I still think you should just do it with a Non-Linear System, but to each his own. Any other questions, just ask.

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You Know Who really
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Re: Im going to edit an AMV on VHS with a setup that cost over $25,000 in the 90's

Post by You Know Who really » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:25 pm

Also what are the model numbers of the decks. I cant tell from the picture.

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