the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

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the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Siwz4r » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:22 pm

I've asked lot of people on how flow can be achieve and the only thing they've said was "you will get by the time you're going to edit more and more to gain experience" 8 years since than and i'm still asking my self about this called "flow"

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Kireblue » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:02 pm

I think that this tutorial from Vivifx does the best job at explaining it

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Siwz4r » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:01 am

Thank you for replying and also for the help.

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Mol » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:19 am

basically you try to match music in a different way than just blindly cut on sounds ; d. Imo rarely pure flow works in amv without some variety with sync in one way or another. Anyway i guess everything is use to one preference/taste.
Still better than that MMO.
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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby seasons » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:00 pm

Siwz4r wrote:8 years since than and i'm still asking my self about this called "flow"



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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Pathos Prime » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:19 pm

In AMV League, we try and define Flow roughly as "Do these scenes, placed in this method and order, look like they create a coherent whole? Or does it just look like a bunch of disorganized and unrelated cuts?" We have a shorthand we use when grading - "JBOS," for "Just a Bunch Of Scenes." Like many artistic elements, it's hard to quantify or describe.

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby PieandBeer » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:38 pm

WAIT i creeped on your youtube and i think u have great flow don't be worried haha. the vids i linked are all upbeat so i don't think they apply to you directly. imo drama flow is bit different from upbeat/action flow, but the basics below are still there. don't let anyone tell you that you need crazy effects and transitions to have your vid have flow, especially in drama vids

Pathos Prime wrote: Or does it just look like a bunch of disorganized and unrelated cuts?"

Disagree. i think it's important to distinguish narrative flow from visual flow. you can have a completely random video with great visual flow. i'm assuming the ask here is for visual flow.


here is a video that jumps around for lyric sync, but maintains flow through motion and transitions.


here's another good example, note the use of transitions and groupings of similar clips

crazy transitions aren't necessary, but they certainly help with some anime. i tend to edit raw, but i compensate by going for anime with lots of native motion or put a lot of effort into adding my own.

other editors can talk to you about color correction for adjacent clips because im a pleb. for me the most important thing for flow is motion. unless there is a distinct moment in the song that calls for a halt, then motion both native to the clip and added by the editor should have a smooth pattern. this doesn't mean it has to be constant. you definitely want "peaks and valleys" where the faster moments of the song are distinct from the slower sections, but the transition to those parts of the song should be subtle and ramp up and down as needed. also super important to match the energy of the song. don't simply go for smooth looking clip pairings that are not the speed the song calls for.

attention should also be paid to how clips look next to each other, matching movements between clips and not jumping back and forth from a ton different types of shots (like close up, scenery). like try to understand where the viewer's eyes will be at a certain point and let that inform what the best next clip would be.

really, flow just makes it so the editing isn't as noticeable in the video, like it helps make it seem like the song and anime were always meant to be paired. it makes the video easier to watch and imo lets the sources get more attention than the cuts.

MORE EXAMPLES cuz i suck

another effects heavy vid but its smooth like butter


and a more raw-ish video to show you how simple motion and internal sync can be used to maintain energy

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Scintilla » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:38 pm

PieandBeer wrote:really, flow just makes it so the editing isn't as noticeable in the video, like it helps make it seem like the song and anime were always meant to be paired.

You said the magic words. I am now obligated to give, as an example of what that feels like, Kevin Caldwell's Engel.
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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby DJ_Izumi » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:41 pm

Scintilla wrote:You said the magic words. I am now obligated to give, as an example of what that feels like, Kevin Caldwell's Engel.


608 x 448@ 29.97 fps


Someone needs to re-remaster that remaster at 1080p, STAT. :)
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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby lloyd9988 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:56 am

Scintilla wrote:
PieandBeer wrote:really, flow just makes it so the editing isn't as noticeable in the video, like it helps make it seem like the song and anime were always meant to be paired.

You said the magic words. I am now obligated to give, as an example of what that feels like, Kevin Caldwell's Engel.


Down to it's core, I'd definitely agree that this contains the fundamentals of flow.

I found that "Dark Sun" to be a good example of atmospheric flow because I don't try to pay attention to what the lead singer is saying but just how the video and music feel together.

~Yo~

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby lloyd9988 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:16 am

I wanted to keep my first post separate from the second one because this is my own personal belief on "flow". (fyi, I don't edit much but I love watching AMVs and I'm pretty picky about my favorites)

To start, have a direction to follow (What are you trying to show?). From beginning to end, can one random individual audience member grasp what you're trying to show without you needing to explain your concept outside of the amv?
If yes :up:
If no :? (I'll need to make a flow-chart full of if-else statements)

Personally, I think that there is a spectrum on the difficulty of achieving flow in an amv. I believe that difficulty of achieving flow depends on (i) source material and (ii) personal style of editing.

(i) Source Material may make or break an amv from the start. I think there are two factors to consider in this scenario: (1) Ease of matching video with audio and (2) Amount of Material being used

(1) Ease of Matching Video with Audio: Basically, two examples of easy matching is "Kimi Ni Todoke" with "[Insert Slow Love Song]", or "Dragon Ball Z" with "Linkin Park". They just match and they're easy to edit because the video material is attuned with "Love" or "Action". Hell, this is probably why Shelter had such amazing flow (My dream ;-; ).

Now... If you attempt to match Kimi Ni Todoke (Slow Romance Anime) with Linkin Park, you will most likely spend a lot of time trying to match the two sources together because Kimi Ni Todoke is NOT an action anime. Note: This is not implying that matching the two source material is impossible, but difficulty rises when they are not compatible from the beginning. Fluffy Kittens and Rainbows and Death Romance prove that this is completely possible but, the larger the mismatch, the more creative (and fun :) ) you have to be with flowing the materials together.

(2) Amount of Material Being Used: Basically, the more material you plan on using in one sequence of flow (which can be from 3 frames to, I'd say, approximately 4 seconds), the more time-consuming the amv becomes. Umika (RIP) is probably my example for that.

(ii) Personal Style of Editing just dictates whether you have fun editing the material or not. If editing the material is easy for you, you probably find that particular style of editing fun (i.e. fast, action paced verses Slow, Romance based; Multiple Anime Sources verses One Anime Source). Basically, Have fun with what you do. Sometimes you're better at editing slow videos than fast videos. Other times, it's the other way around. Who knows :shrug:
~Yo~

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby lloyd9988 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:22 am

PieandBeer wrote:WAIT i creeped on your youtube and i think u have great flow don't be worried haha.


Agreed
~Yo~

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Ericluv » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:07 am

Siwz4r wrote:I've asked lot of people on how flow can be achieve and the only thing they've said was "you will get by the time you're going to edit more and more to gain experience" 8 years since than and i'm still asking my self about this called "flow"


Flow is not something you 'achieve'. Flow is just another word for action. You can't achieve flow while waiting for it. It finds you while you're so focused on what you're doing. Unless . . . you're doing something you are not meant to do.

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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Kionon » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:25 pm

I actually concur entirely with our newest member. For me, if I have to think about "planning" flow, I invariably screw it up. I just storyboard with very broad scene choices matched up to very broad lyric concepts and then I tighten the flow as I drop things into the timeline. I usually don't edit linearly (after all, we've had NLE since I was in high school 20 years ago). So I start with storyboard, then dump in broad scene selections to fill the timeline, then I jump around tweaking how those scenes connect to each other along with the lyrics and the beat/melody/harmony.

I'm a song first editor (as in I hear the song and then my mind starts, roughly seeing images of an anime in my head), and specifically a lyrics first editor (in that I focus on matching the lyrics, at least metaphorically if not too literally), and then my final task is tightening up the editing for what I think we're describing here as "flow." Then the video is done.

Of course, as I said elsewhere, this usually takes me years, because I don't get a chance to sit down and work on the timelines all that often, and I don't get a lot accomplished during my periods of activity. I think the longest a single video ever took me to finish was 7 years.
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Re: the meaning of "FLOW" in the editing community.

Postby Siwz4r » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:00 am

lloyd9988 wrote:I wanted to keep my first post separate from the second one because this is my own personal belief on "flow". (fyi, I don't edit much but I love watching AMVs and I'm pretty picky about my favorites)

To start, have a direction to follow (What are you trying to show?). From beginning to end, can one random individual audience member grasp what you're trying to show without you needing to explain your concept outside of the amv?
If yes :up:
If no :? (I'll need to make a flow-chart full of if-else statements)

Personally, I think that there is a spectrum on the difficulty of achieving flow in an amv. I believe that difficulty of achieving flow depends on (i) source material and (ii) personal style of editing.

(i) Source Material may make or break an amv from the start. I think there are two factors to consider in this scenario: (1) Ease of matching video with audio and (2) Amount of Material being used

(1) Ease of Matching Video with Audio: Basically, two examples of easy matching is "Kimi Ni Todoke" with "[Insert Slow Love Song]", or "Dragon Ball Z" with "Linkin Park". They just match and they're easy to edit because the video material is attuned with "Love" or "Action". Hell, this is probably why Shelter had such amazing flow (My dream ;-; ).

Now... If you attempt to match Kimi Ni Todoke (Slow Romance Anime) with Linkin Park, you will most likely spend a lot of time trying to match the two sources together because Kimi Ni Todoke is NOT an action anime. Note: This is not implying that matching the two source material is impossible, but difficulty rises when they are not compatible from the beginning. Fluffy Kittens and Rainbows and Death Romance prove that this is completely possible but, the larger the mismatch, the more creative (and fun :) ) you have to be with flowing the materials together.

(2) Amount of Material Being Used: Basically, the more material you plan on using in one sequence of flow (which can be from 3 frames to, I'd say, approximately 4 seconds), the more time-consuming the amv becomes. Umika (RIP) is probably my example for that.

(ii) Personal Style of Editing just dictates whether you have fun editing the material or not. If editing the material is easy for you, you probably find that particular style of editing fun (i.e. fast, action paced verses Slow, Romance based; Multiple Anime Sources verses One Anime Source). Basically, Have fun with what you do. Sometimes you're better at editing slow videos than fast videos. Other times, it's the other way around. Who knows :shrug:


WOW!!! this opened my mind and know i can finally think more outside the box, i'm surprise that a person like you actually exist in this community that's why i will kindly say. THANK YOU SO MUCH and A BIG HEART FOR YOU! <3


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