Lossless codecs for REAL editors

[Kawatta-kun]

So i've been wondering if i should talk about lossless codecs (Utvideo, lagarith, ...) to my teachers (who teach me Combustion, Avid, those kind of programs), since in the real world everything must be imported as the full quality possible, meaning uncompressed ou TIFF sequence. We all know lossless codecs are way better, but is this an "improvement" in the real world?? What is their general opinion?

[Nya-chan Production]

lagarith and UTVideo are free what good can THEY be? </sarcasm>

No, really - money dictates what's being learned in schools. It's a fact.

Also personal preferences.

[BasharOfTheAges]

Well, lossless by definition means without loss. If there were any visual differences, they would not be lossless as visual differences mean loss.

[Kionon]

I've used Lag and HuffYUV in school and in professional settings. They're tools, like any other. If your professors give you flack about your intermediate LOSSLESS codec, they are pompous asses.

[Phantasmagoriat]

As long as you can justify why you are using something like UtVideo, I don't see a problem.

1. No Quality Loss is obviously a good thing...
2. Faster Seek-Times for improved editing speed. This allows you to easily scrub the timeline and rearrange clips.
3. Truly Frame-Accurate footage allows for precise cuts; important for timing.
4. Improved Stability usually prevents glitches and program crashes…

...ofc, this comes at the cost of larger file sizes/disc-space, and an annoying intermediate conversion step. The thing is, in a professional environment I assume you'll be dealing with large amounts of raw footage, so it could get really annoying really quickly. I mean, if you compare the footage used in a feature-length movie to the amount of raw footage collected, you might shit brix. The problem is compounded even further when you want to make a backup. But IMO, it's worth it since after conversion is complete your editing is limited by data transfer speed, not by CPU/GPU decoding speed.

Then again, editing with proxies is even better, but I'm guessing people would think you're crazy to even suggest using low quality footage... or they'll think you're pulling off some kind of voodoo.

[Castor Troy]

I've used Lag and HuffYUV in school and in professional settings. They're tools, like any other. If your professors give you flack about your intermediate LOSSLESS codec, they are pompous asses.

That's fine for your own system, but:

Lagarith and Huffy don't work in Avid or Final Cut and the process of capturing footage from high-def cameras used for film and TV is far different than ripping DVDs/converting raws.

I don't think the industry wants to waste time converting their 4k RED camera clips into lagarith and huffy codecs since Avid, Final Cut, Premiere, and even Vegas have support for native camera codecs.

[Castor Troy]

Then again, editing with proxies is even better, but I'm guessing people would think you're crazy to even suggest using low quality footage... or they'll think you're pulling off some kind of voodoo.

Yeah, proxies are used all the time and can easily sync up to the master footage with EDLs (Edit Decision List, look in the "So You Want to become a Professional Editor" thread in my sig for more details).

For the first feature film I edited, I cut it with low quality DV camera footage. The Post Production center my director and I brought my Final Cut EDL file to was easily able to sync it up with the master film footage.

[Phantasmagoriat]

I predict one day editing programs will automate all of this (like rendering proxies on-the-fly), and makes most of this knowledge useless.

[Kionon]

I've used Lag and HuffYUV in school and in professional settings. They're tools, like any other. If your professors give you flack about your intermediate LOSSLESS codec, they are pompous asses.

That's fine for your own system, but:

Lagarith and Huffy don't work in Avid or Final Cut and the process of capturing footage from high-def cameras used for film and TV is far different than ripping DVDs/converting raws.

I don't think the industry wants to waste time converting their 4k RED camera clips into lagarith and huffy codecs since Avid, Final Cut, Premiere, and even Vegas have support for native camera codecs.

I realise this. Most editors here are windows users. As to the Mac side of things, huffyuv does indeed work in Final Cut, as it is perian, which is a quicktime component. You can't EXPORT it, but you can IMPORT it. Anyhow, again, these are tools, and use the right tools for the job. That being said, if someone says you can never ever under any circumstances use huffyuv, they're pompous asses, and I'd ignore them. Or possibly tell them so.

[Castor Troy]

That being said, if someone says you can never ever under any circumstances use huffyuv, they're pompous asses, and I'd ignore them. Or possibly tell them so.

I definitely agree and will still use huffy and lagarith for my own productions.

Most Hollywood editors don't even know what codecs are.