selling AMVs?

[trythil]

DVD's are the tool of the anti-satan and shall be cleansed forth from Existence. Amen.

Wow, that sounds a lot like

"In the name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be perished into eternal damnation. Amen."

[MistyCaldwell]

I don't think anyone was saying you were charging to much...all you have to do is fudge the numbers and say you aren't making a profit anyway. It was the whole, 'is it right to do in the first place' ethical thingy.

Just about every POV has been brought up already though...it's all pretty civil and flame free, aside from the light doki bashing

[Mr Pilkington]

How about this as a solution?
You make CDs or DVDs at your own expence, then at con simply ask for tips based on the reciever's POV. If none, then none. If cash, then good. If "don't pet a burning porqupine," then.... well?

[KhalReblic23]

I sense a controversy lol

[zenmetsu]

i'm going to need to go through this almost line by line.

So what you're saying is it'd be better for me if my DVD was crap made with Sonic MyDVD, dumped onto a DVDR and labeled with a Sharpie? I'll have you know that quite a few people have already emailed me complimenting me on the professionalism of my DVD,

did i say it would be "better" or perhaps "more right" if your production was made with crappy software or equipment or was less "professional"? i said nothing to that effect. personally, i think it's great that you'd go to such great lengths to make a good product. but that is far removed from the issue i'm trying to raise. the issue is selling that product despite its extensive use of materials you do not have the rights to use.

and even though my website is up (where you can download my videos for FREE) I've received so many DVD orders that I've had to order more blanks, even before the current shipment has come in.

popularity doesn't necessarily mean that it is right. that is hardly a defense. i'm trying to hit moral and legal points here, though we've already said that people will do whatever they please.

Am I a threat to the industry? No more than Justin or Brad. If anything, I'm advertising for the anime I've used (AND PAID FOR!!!).

okay, once again, the "threat" thing: it isn't that you are a major threat to them and their business, it's that selling media containing their copyrighted material may make it necessary for them to defend their copyrights. the trick is that the more well-known and widespread the selling of amvs becomes (which is why you announcing it on stage made me cringe), the more likely it is that they will take at least one person to court to send a message to the rest of us that we've gone too far. think any of us could argue for amvs in court and not be laughed into oblivion?

plus, if you read my original post, you know that i had already said that amvs are probably good advertising, and that's why companies have so far looked the other way. if you think that's going to stop them from defending their copyrights in court if it becomes necessary....

I find myself having to refer back to the DDR2 DVD. It's been out for almost 3 months and you wait until MY DVD to post this topic. A professional company selling fan-made AMVs for a hefty price. If that doesn't get industry attention, then I sure as hell aren't gonna cause a stir with MY PRICE.

okay, i'm not one to read through all the forums here. i barely ever catch the big discussions here, let alone participate in them. the reason i pointed it out now, and effectively pointed the finger at you, is because i saw you advertise your dvd at the katsucon awards ceremony. so, i see something right in front of my eyes that i feel is both wrong and a potential danger to the community, and i'm not supposed to say anything because you aren't the first? you mentioned justin and brad and the ddr2 dvd. do you assume i think selling any of those dvds is right and selling yours is not? i just wasn't there to witness those being sold, and i just wasn't there to participate in discussions about them. but what i'm saying applies to them as well. i'm not attacking you. i'm voicing my ethical and legal concerns on the matter, and your actions happened to be what sparked the concerns in my mind.

morally i object to the sale of amvs. but when it isn't under-the-table and is instead announced to a room full of people at a convention, it also becomes a legal concern. just how far can we edge into these companies' copyrights before they are forced to take action?

My decission to produce a complex DVD with quality labelling is due to the PRIDE I HAVE IN MY WORK. I set out to design something that would be at home on one's shelf, not propping up their table three days after a con.

yes, fine, that's great in fact. i'm glad you have pride in your work. but have you been paying attention? you were not selling your dvds anywhere near "cost." the price of the dvd-r would be "cost." your pride was the only reason to create fancy packaging. eating the cost is the very definition of amv authoring. and you mention the dvd burner is part of your equipment costs? but that justification only works if the only thing you use the dvd burner for is making your dvd, and no personal use. if it's for personal use, it's your personal equipment and no one else should be making up the cost of it.

you see, the difference between business and hobby is who picks up the tab. if your expenses are paid for by others (the buyers) then it's a business, if you pay your own expenses it's a hobby. you're expecting to be compensated for the time and money you've put into amvs and put into your dvd, but that makes it a business. and it's a business in which you are selling media containing material that you do not have the rights to. before you try to defend against that statement, remember: the fact that others have done similar things (or even the same thing) in the past in no way means it's right; the fact that "amvs are made without the license-holders' permissions" does factor into the matter whether you believe it or not; and the fact that you paid for and own the anime you use does not give you the right to duplicate and sell portions of it.

vicbond, please don't take this stuff personally, alright? i'm not attacking you, i'm not taking issue with how well you produced the dvd, i'm not saying your price is too high. i'm strongly objecting to the sale of amvs at any price. selling at the cost of the media is a grey area that i can forgive, but selling for a profit i can not. and you can say that you're trying to pay for the equipment, but it can't be a business. that is your personal equipment, and you are the one who is financially responsible for it. but in the end, that's all moot, because i'm saying that you can't sell material you don't have the rights to. what more can i possibly say?

[iserlohn]

In Vic's defense, he DID give out a number of freebies to people he owed favors to.....

as well as to the producer of the Ah! My Goddess movie...

Mr. Inoue seemed flattered.

[EarthCurrent]

In Vic's defense, he DID give out a number of freebies to people he owed favors to.....

as well as to the producer of the Ah! My Goddess movie...

Mr. Inoue seemed flattered.

Mr. Inoue probably thought he was getting a porn DVD...

[jal0021]

A couple of points...

First, I don't think there's much money to be made selling DVDs to begin with. The higher you price the discs, the less you're going to sell. If you try increasing your profits by jacking the price up to, say, $10 over cost, a lot of people are going to say "thanks, but no thanks". AMVs just aren't all that profitable of an endeavor, so no one will be able to make off like a bandit, no matter how hard they try.

Second, while we're obviously violating copyright when we distribute AMVs, I don't buy into the idea that we're truly ripping any anime companies off - that is, adversely affecting their bottom line. If you create a 4 minute music video using a 26 episode TV series as source, you're using 0.67% of the total footage at best (taking each episode as 23 minutes long). Somehow, I don't think someone, having watched said video, is going to say "well, now I don't have to buy that series on DVD". To be honest, if you're truly ripping anyone off, it's whoever holds the rights to the music you used, as it's there uncut and in its entirety (most of the time).

I'm guessing the anime companies are going to go after outright pirates (DVD rippers) and fansubbers before they worry themselves much with the AMV community, as the former affects or can potentially affect their bottom line far more than the latter. As long as fansubbers are safe, I think we can relax.

[Nappy]

I don't buy into the idea that we're truly ripping any anime companies off

As Earthcurrent said earlier, that money they brought to the con might have went to buying a anime dvd, so its possible that sales are being taken away.

[EarthCurrent]

As Earthcurrent said earlier, that money they brought to the con might have went to buying a anime dvd, so its possible that sales are being taken away.

And those con dealers are a surly bunch at times, they don't like it when things might result in a lost sale.