I make amvs for fun!

[CorpseGoddess]

Perhaps there should be an option to opt out of the star system and/or opinions altogether?

Well, there is - it's called not uploading them to local.

So now we're a coterie that you can only join if you're into having your stuff judged?

I missed that sticky somewhere.

Does that mean we shouldn't have "exhibition" categories in competitions? Some people just want to share the creations they've made and have people enjoy them. I don't think those people should be unable to post their videos here.

[Scintilla]

"Not uploading a video to local" != "not listing the video here".

Also see my earlier comment about just ignoring the opinions and quick comments... nobody's making us read them.

[Castor Troy]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to win.

[Knowname]

You are obviously not of the otaku (traditional Japanese meaning not americanized one) mindset - if you were you'd not separate work and fun... they are indistinguishable parts of the whole.

very deep... and very true I'd forgotted that I am NOT your typical AMV editor... maybe that's why so few are like me ^_^. I've always said that I am NOT here for the anime, but the amvs themselves. It is the things we can do on computers that intrigues me, not anime in the least... well maybe in the least but...

so yeah! Thankyou VERY much for reminding me ;p

I'll say this clearly and in all caps because not a lot of people seem to understand it; THE WORD OTAKU HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LIKING ANIME - IT IS A PERSONALITY TYPE. I can offer you some scholarly articles to that point written over the past decade or 2 if you want. It's very close to an obsessive personality disorder if you look at it clinically.

ok I get you now.... I would seriously like to introduce you to my psychiatrist though... it's just kinda' funny that you say I do NOT have an obsessive personality o.0

Also, to address the overall point - If you want to half-ass something and still get pats on the back kindly try boochsack. If you don't like being judged on your shortcomings then stop posting videos i guess. Some hobbies are more labor-intensive than others while some are insanely expensive. Rock collecting is pretty decent though - you should give it a try.

it's not about the criticism per say, it's HOW you say it.

That means you have a problem not with the community or the hobby but with the Internet - that's a clear distinction.

?? I'm not following...

Secondly there is this studio issue. competition for PRIDE is one thing, but like dedication, there IS a point when your not only competing for pride but your also pawning it off on the subservient. Again, lets go back and define some of those points. What I mean by pawning it off is your EXPECTING this level of 'professionalism' out of others in your studio.

Name one AMV production group that does this.

sorry, but again, I'm not getting into that.... as was said the concern here is NOT the production groups (studios) themselves, but the person's expectations going into one.

A handful of editors quit. So what? That doesn't mean anything, aside from that they quit making videos. It's hardly indicitive of the community as a whole. It's more just an example that sometimes people get tired of doing things after a long time and want to do something else.

no-no that's called taking a break. When they say they QUIT and are incistant that they QUIT as Tom the Fish, Silver_Moon and Ermac have done, that means they have quit, sayonara, byebye. Now there ARE others such as Alu, EK(W) (Big Big Truck), even Flint the Dwarf, who have more... say, fallen behind and are on the EXTENDED break. I don't expect them back as is. Either they will change if they return or the community will revert back, their old videos just won't cut it any more. Quiting (or just putting on hold) this amv community is like... commiting yourself to death row, I don't see it as anything BUT fatal (as far as your amv career is concerned). Their days of going off on a high note have passed and I don't see them coming back.

Why did I do this?? Quit possibly just to spread my own form of masochism.

[trythil]

but there are many people who don't appreciate the harsh criticism that extreme editors (and critiquers) can dish out. and if the opinions are not wanted by the creator, then why should they be given?

I think you're making an implicit assumption along the lines of

"the author of a creative work deserves to have control over what people think of that creative work"

or perhaps the weaker version:

"the author of a creative work deserves to have control over how people communicate their thoughts on that creative work back to the author"

I think both assumptions carry dangerous negative implications with regards to what they mean for freedom of speech, and as such I do not accept either of them. However, I'm interested to hear if you agree with this analysis, and if you do, whether you agree or disagree with the assumptions.

==

There's an idea that seems to come up quite frequently with these sorts of threads. BurningLeaves' post captures it quite well:

Is it as fun as it was when I started? No. because I know now that I have to work harder if I want to make something that is considered 'good'. But Im the one making the choice to try and improve.

This seems to capture the idea that there's an inverse (or, as Knowname would seem to have it, mutually exclusive) relationship between something being "fun" and the amount of work, time, money, etc. to excel at. This same idea is echoed in Knowname's starting post.

I don't think this relationship exists. I can't offer a proof as justification, but I can offer an anecdotal counterexample:

For almost a year now I've been getting into portrait photography, which requires both a modest investment in equipment (camera equipment and lighting materials, mostly) and a very large investment in study and time (you learn by shooting, not by osmosis). I've also been doing the same for 3D animation and modeling, although not with the same intensity. There's harsh criticism out there and history has set a very high bar to reach in both fields.

However, I still enjoy pursuing both hobbies with a high degree of intensity.

I've made thousands of mistakes for every hundred shots I think are worth keeping. Half of those hundred make it online, and they're usually verbally shredded. My 3D efforts aren't much better: the poor introductions for Reflections of Style 2, Reflections of Style 3, and DDR Project 4 are among the best I have to show for those efforts. But I keep at it, and I keep reaching for those high rings because I enjoy the challenge, even if I am occasionally driven to cynicism and profanity by it.


Finally, to address a condescending assumption made in the opening post:

Maybe some of you kids won't get this, but us adults don't wanna come home to our 2nd (3rd or 4th) job

I'm a full-time software engineer, which should take me out of the "kid" category.

==

I think the real problem that makes AMVs "un-fun" for some people is the problem of harsh criticism. However, if that's the case, I'm not sure how to deal with that one.

[Knowname]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to win.

just keep that away from me mmmk???

[BasharOfTheAges]

Perhaps there should be an option to opt out of the star system and/or opinions altogether?

Well, there is - it's called not uploading them to local.

So now we're a coterie that you can only join if you're into having your stuff judged?

::checks global statistics box:: Yep, people that have never made a video still outnumber creators by over 16:1 - joining requires filling out a form, that's it.

[JudgeHolden]

Perhaps there should be an option to opt out of the star system and/or opinions altogether?

Well, there is - it's called not uploading them to local.

That only gets you out of the star score system; if you don't upload a video to local, anyone can leave opinions on it.


(Which is why I did exactly that for my one video released so far this year...)

Which makes you safe, because people don't leave ops unless they are friends, fans, or you ask for them ......

What are you talking about? I used to get random opinions all the time (and still do occasionally).

Yes Used to are the key words. Plus, you made great videos that where very popular that people wanted (and still do) to leave ops on. Most people are to lazy to go through the effort of oping a video they hate, however they will leave a QC and / a 1. Now if the really liked it in some way they will leave an op and fall into the fan category or fans of the video (Like fans of Waka Laka for Osaka or AMV Hell).

[JaddziaDax]

mmmm teh dramas tehy taste fishy O:

[trythil]

I think both assumptions carry dangerous negative implications with regards to what they mean for freedom of speech, and as such I do not accept either of them.

I should clarify: I'm not saying that there's a legal mechanism preventing the .org from implementing such an opt-out system. What I am saying is that because I don't like the implications of either assumption and (here's the part I accidentally omitted) I can't justify any reason for why such limits on critical speech should exist, I reject both assumptions.