So You Want to Start a Revolution?

koronoru · Post by **koronoru** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:00 pm

Kusoyaro wrote:
koronoru wrote: The other thing you seem to be advocating sounds like a Dogme 95 "vow of chastity" for AMV directors. It's a recipe for artsy pretension. If that's what you want, go for it.
Nate and I had actually discussed that exact thing several months back. I don't see how it's a "recipe for artsy pretension." All it would mean is that editors would go back to focusing on the story and energy of an AMV through simple cuts and fades, letting the footage and the music tell the story...rather than matching every tick and drumbeat with a moving square or lens flare.

It's not using simple techniques that causes trouble - it's insisting on the use of simple techniques. If you try to show off how cool you can be without using any high-tech effects, then you're just as much showing off, and just as much in line to make a video that sucks, as the people who think there's nothing to it except high-tech effects. In fairness to the Dogme 95 directors, I think that was part of the point they were making - it was a deliberately self-referential stunt. Either way, it's a show of laziness: video creators think that they can make a good video that will impress people if they just discover the right formula, the right software to use, the right magic clip to include, and so on. Use effects. Don't use effects. Use obscure anime and music. Do a Linkinball vid. Complain in the forums. Flame the complainers. None of these things seem to work, but everyone tries them because we're hung up on thinking that we can make good videos by doing something other than making videos. It just doesn't work that way; there isn't really any substitute for practice.

My own videos don't use much in the way of fancy transitions, but if there's something I want to do that will end up looking flashy, I won't hesitate to do it. The more I work on these projects the more I am drawn to the belief that there are no rules - no absolute dos or don'ts. Each video I do (and I apologise for not having the latest one online yet - I wanna give my local club one more chance to premiere it at their show this coming weekend) sucks less than the previous one. If I don't get annoyed and drop the whole thing first, some day I hope to make videos that don't suck much at all.

koronoru · Post by **koronoru** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:02 pm

Sorry, that last posting meandered off in a strange direction. The point I was trying to make:

Saying "Don't use fancy effects!" will not solve anything because people will still believe that some rule, either that one or something else, will allow them to make good videos. There are no rules, and we can't force videos to be good, nor even force them to be better on average even if still generally bad, just by making rules.

Jebadia · Post by **Jebadia** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:10 pm

I started a new video today...and just out of spite...I added some effects..thought not pointless...they are rather abundant...

SSJVegita0609 · Post by **SSJVegita0609** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:52 pm

Jebadia wrote:I started a new video today...and just out of spite...I added some effects..thought not pointless...they are rather abundant...

You
BASTARD!

I think Fluxy's sarcastic sig is in order.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:12 am

Firstly Nightowl, I agree with everything you said. Don't think I'm trying to suck up or do any ego stroking. Just be surprized, because it doesn't happen all that often.

I havent read the whole thread so if my suggestion was mentioned by someone else before just let me know. We can dump the rating system and keep the ability to post opinions. It would help support AMV's in an artistic manner by allowing those who wish to give honest opinions to do so in a constuctive manner, and without the rating system prevent the straight 10 OMGROFL opinions. (The OMGROFL part may pop up, but it won't have any 10's.)

As for the community, I don't know what to say. This will put a bullet in the head to any elitism there is (or just move it all into competitions where peopel will then go OMGROFLWTF I GOT AN AWARD U SUX0R!) but as for n00b influxes and trolling, the only thing that'll improve that is better mods or a few self apointed net nannies who have the interests of treating people well and still letting them know if they're breaking a rule. I've seen alot happen here, and I've seen other communities as well. I'm not going to say the people in the community are good or bad, but I can tell you I have certainly seen worse.

DJ_Izumi · Post by **DJ_Izumi** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:40 am

CaTaClYsM wrote: As for the community, I don't know what to say. This will put a bullet in the head to any elitism there is (or just move it all into competitions where peopel will then go OMGROFLWTF I GOT AN AWARD U SUX0R!) but as for n00b influxes and trolling, the only thing that'll improve that is better mods or a few self apointed net nannies who have the interests of treating people well and still letting them know if they're breaking a rule.

Here is where I fully agree. Phade has demonstrated absolutly no ability to manage this comunity. The 'Mods' do not even moderate the forums, they relocate posts and that's it. Behaviour is never moderated, a user is allowed to troll untill the breaking point is hit, and the user is banned from the forums, and that almost EVER happens, Spanda is a good example. A situation allowed to run COMPLETLY out of control, and after all possable damage is done, the user is banned. This of course making everyone elses experiance still suck. Net nannies, who would PM users and warn them that they are being a dumb ass and risk running into administrative trouble would be great.

However, I have little faith in Phade to impliment such a thing, and doubt he cares about our experiance here.

Jebadia · Post by **Jebadia** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:16 am

hey hey now..they do some moderation..they wiped out my attempt at bumping my thread in the AMV Announcements forum

BogoSort · Post by **BogoSort** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:39 am

DJ_Izumi wrote:Here is where I fully agree. Phade has demonstrated absolutly no ability to manage this comunity.

You try managing a community of 100,000+ people, and tell me how it works. The forums and whatnot are run by volunteers, and believe it or not, they have other things to do with their lives.

Besides, Phade seems to have chosen to try to censor as little as possible(basically only what can keep the about amvs, while not getting sued). Censoring is generally not a way to promote artistic expression(which is what many of you all claim that making amvs is) now is it? People who choose to express the opinion of OMGWTF!!!11 about videos still have an opinion. People are different. Different people like different things. We don't critisize people for liking dramatic videos, comedic videos, or dance videos. Why should be mock someone for enjoying flashes in time with a beat, lip synch, using scenes of Vash dancing?

DJ_Izumi · Post by **DJ_Izumi** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:44 am

BogoSort wrote: You try managing a community of 100,000+ people, and tell me how it works. The forums and whatnot are run by volunteers, and believe it or not, they have other things to do with their lives.

There is NOT 100 000 active people on this message board, nothing CLOSE to that. I'll admit the board is large, but I've seen larger. There are moderators, a select secret few who relocate threads for kicks.

It would NOT be hard to manage the org, one would simply need to have sufficent ammount of competant moderators and a set of doctorine for managing the comunuity.

http://www.ponju.net

This anime message board is FAR larger then the org, and the behaviour here is ten fold more civilized there. Don't tell me it can't happen.

[MOD467: I'm sorry if this forum is not as totalitarian as you wish it to be. I guess erring on the side of leniency offends you, but we can't have everything our way, can we? Please keep in mind that the main function of this site is to catalog AMVs, NOT to manage the forum, Mr. Pie Liker.]

WilLoW :--) · Post by **WilLoW :--)** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:04 am

DJ_Izumi wrote:
BogoSort wrote: You try managing a community of 100,000+ people, and tell me how it works. The forums and whatnot are run by volunteers, and believe it or not, they have other things to do with their lives.
There is NOT 100 000 active people on this message board, nothing CLOSE to that. I'll admit the board is large, but I've seen larger. There are moderators, a select secret few who relocate threads for kicks.

It would NOT be hard to manage the org, one would simply need to have sufficent ammount of competant moderators and a set of doctorine for managing the comunuity.

http://www.ponju.net

This anime message board is FAR larger then the org, and the behaviour here is ten fold more civilized there. Don't tell me it can't happen.

You're rude.
The forums of .org are IMO not the most important part of the website. I think that's why Phade doesn't spend his life managing it.
While you're here criticizing the forum, the star scale system is born, the golden donut works fine, etc... Don't you even see all the work there's on this website ?
The programmer's group is slowly working to improve the website, and one day, yes, there'll be improvements, but it needs time...and again I think improving the forums is not the most important part...

I think you're one of those who think that this website is only a forum ? Where is the database on your "Ponju" website ? I don't see any search button... I see a small gallery and a forum... Yes, when the forum is the main activity of a website, I think you can spend time moderating and ruling it...but not here.