Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement

JudgeHolden · Post by **JudgeHolden** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:13 am

I wouldn't worry. The logistics of what they a proposing is far beyond the capacity of border officials and agents (not to mention airport customs agents) to handle, nor for many of them to be able to know that they have found something "illegal" (when it comes to an AMV0. Unless you are on a list of suspected "pirates" or going to, or from, a developing nation know for pirating (like Thailand or China), i doubt this will have any real effect on border crossings.

Sukunai · Post by **Sukunai** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:19 am

When I see stuff like this, I wonder, "who is going to lose the most, me or big business?" I usually end up thinking big business.

Last year I made no money selling blank media, but I know several labels that sold a lot of it.

Last year I made no money selling computer disc burner drives, but I know several labels sold a great many of them. They sold a new one to me for starters.

Last year I made no money selling software meant to burn data to disc, but I know my fav program was released in a new version. I bet a lot of other programs went on sale too.

Last year I made no money off of selling internet access, but I sure paid out a lot of money to large names like Bell Canada.

Last year I made no money off of selling specialized internet services, but I paid out a fairly large chunk using some.

I think the message is clear. I made no money off of my activities last year, but I sure put a lot of my money into someone's pocket while being active.
And it needs to be said, I put no money into anyone's pocket for P2P usage. They ain't getting rich off of me.

I bought several games in the last couple of years as digital downloads.
I sure won't do that in a world where proof of innocence is the wrong way around.

I'm thinking of buying something in the way of a music player beginning in lower case i and having the word "pod" somewhere in it.
But I sure ain't spending something like 200 plus bucks for a doodad that can play stuff that will only be seen as pirated goods until proven otherwise.

I don't have ANY plans to cross out of Canada into another country any time soon. I guess being poor sometimes is a mixed blessing. I can't travel for business or pleasure, so I guess proving what's on my devices is mine is not important to me.

I wonder if this business will be advantageous to business if suddenly no one wants to buy portable media players, portable media storage options, portable computers, portable communications devices, simply because without portable media that is not a ticking time bomb, who's going to want to use them?

It always seems like the people making the laws, are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Or at least, it seems they have no practical contact with the real world.

Or maybe they secretly miss 1970?

I've been in 1970, it was ok, I lived through it, it wasn't actually all that horrible.
I wonder, is industry willing to go back?

BasharOfTheAges · Post by **BasharOfTheAges** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:33 am

Passive acceptance isn't going to solve anything - so you buy less and hope it hurts the big businesses... say even a few million people do it. Okay, this hurts the economy a bit, so you and the lower level employees (at the companies that are grafting the political figures to get this passed) are in a worse financial place. I'm pretty sure the millionaires up to won't feel it enough, and the average joe's willpower to sustain a boycott on principle won't last all too long.

Autraya · Post by **Autraya** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:08 pm

Sukunai wrote:stuff about money

So I thought I should clarify:

Fraud is defined as "dishonestly obtaining a benefit"
Piracy is defined as "the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc."

It's not about monetary gain per se

imo - I'm sure that this is all just a cleverly orchestrated international conspiracy to catch Kitler and use the rubber glove treatment on him in a questioning room

Kevmaster · Post by **Kevmaster** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:39 pm

Miserable.

That's all I have to say.

rubyeye · Post by **rubyeye** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:40 pm

I wonder if we can get Lawrence Lessig to help us fight this?

Kitsuner · Post by **Kitsuner** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:24 am

Autraya wrote:imo - I'm sure that this is all just a cleverly orchestrated international conspiracy to catch Kitler and use the rubber glove treatment on him in a questioning room

Psh, why doesn't anyone just ASK?

Sukunai · Post by **Sukunai** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:22 am

Autraya wrote:
Sukunai wrote:stuff about money
So I thought I should clarify:

Fraud is defined as "dishonestly obtaining a benefit"
Piracy is defined as "the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc."

It's not about monetary gain per se

imo - I'm sure that this is all just a cleverly orchestrated international conspiracy to catch Kitler and use the rubber glove treatment on him in a questioning room

I'm not sure of what point you were attempting to make.

It is indeed about monetary gain.

And the irony is they are doing all these things to catch the "evil pirates" and yet, who is it that produces all the tools, services, and supplies so vital to do anything illegal?
And who is it that is going to lose income over these actions?

It sure the f**k isn't me.

Here's a funny to consider.

Bell Canada through Sympatico, sells you unlimited service, bandwidth without limitations and promises a specific speed level.
After they have taken your money, they then tell you that "unlimited" doesn't actually mean no limits, and that for the good of the whole, you will have to deal with a massive slow down on your speed between the hours of X and Y.
That's goddamned fraud no matter how you spin it.
But being a massive organization, not some schmuck, they assume they are special.

And without that ISP, you have NO internet, none zip nadda. No downloading at all.
So what exactly does that make the ISP where illegal downloading is concerned?
On the street that would be termed "pusher" "facilitator" "dealer" and a range of other terms denoting a source of your fix.
But, because the ISPs like Bell are big and powerful, they can be relied upon to demand "special consideration".
That must make a lot of drug sellers damned envious.

These laws are always about beating up on the schmuck.
They never go after the actual sources.

BasharOfTheAges · Post by **BasharOfTheAges** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:29 am

Autraya wrote:Piracy is defined as "the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc."

Actually, Piracy is defined as "Terror on the high seas" - the hundreds of years of deep connotative meaning is why they use the word after all. "copyright infringement" doesn't have the same venomous ring to it.

Goketsu · Post by **Goketsu** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:11 am

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:The other Aspect that I don't like is the way they can get IPs... I understand that this is to try and fight Piracy, but it can be misused in so many ways.. Hmmm.. just think, all the members IP addresses here could be obtained if this site is seen as a pirate zone... I just don't like where this can lead to...

The real people who profit from piracy will probably get away with this act. It will be the more honest people who’ll take the brunt of it as soon as governments get involved in this..

Wonder if AMVs will be a casualty of this if it goes through...

Vlad

I hope that never happens =/