Seriously, does anyone care about quality anymore?

[mirkosp]

1) Re-compression isn't that hard to get right, though I agree that artifacts are a rather troublesome to deal with. Getting things right through avisynth isn't hard really, but it's not that nice if you have to filter the shit outta the encodes you receive, and I agree that just having the files in a set file format that's perfect for out-of-the-box playback is a better idea.

2) Sounds like what Japan Expo does, to me. And I know that they had quite some playback issues when it came down to the contest. This clearly isn't the best solution for me neither. On the other hand, I think that some contest already can deal with BRDs (IIRC Nate said that he could playback BRDs if for whatever reason they were to be sent... don't recall which contest it was), but that really isn't much of the point here, I guess.

In any case I was more referring to the fact that all the codecs can be used for lossless encoding at the right settings. Lossless x264 compresses much more than Lagarith and it still *is* lossless. I think that rather than just limiting the codecs that one can use as you were hoping, they should just rather specify certain encoding settings so that the conversion is smooth and will still retain quality. After all, not everybody is able to upload a gigs worth of lagarith, and not everybody is able to encode to mpeg2 (I'm not aware of any good freeware mpeg2 encoder, while x264 is good and free).

[BasharOfTheAges]

I think part of the problem is that contests want quantity over quality and then they wonder why their contests suck. For the editors to do some extra work and you'll weed out the crap. Don't let crapy videos into the contest. you don't have to fit 9 videos into each category.

But you do have to fit 5 or 6 vids into each category or there isn't a contest - plain and simple. If good editors didn't have some sort of phobia of submitting to the dozens of small cons that run every year instead of just the big named ones, maybe the standards could be raised.

(the shitty looking ones are always the first to get chopped anyways)

[Pwolf]

But you do have to fit 5 or 6 vids into each category or there isn't a contest - plain and simple.

I completely disagree.

[Phantasmagoriat]

the editors to do some extra work and you'll weed out the crap

I agree with this to a certain extent. I think that's what Akross tries to do. Although instead of restricting videos to MPEG2, they restrict overall bitrate of the video to something a regular* computer can handle using the CCCP [*term used loosely]. It's not such a bad idea IMO; I mean, if you know your computer can handle a variety of files when certain specifications are clamped, then why not allow them?

It seems to me like you want to push for universal standards-- which would be awesome and a noble aspiration, but standards change. What about all the new editors that don't know how to encode to MPEG2. Just because they don't know how, doesn't mean their videos will suck.

"I don't know how to encode to MPEG2, I only know how to encode to h264"
we're going to hear a lot of this in a few years

[Pwolf]

the editors to do some extra work and you'll weed out the crap

I agree with this to a certain extent. I think that's what Akross tries to do. Although instead of restricting videos to MPEG2, they restrict overall bitrate of the video to something a regular* computer can handle using the CCCP [*term used loosely]. It's not such a bad idea IMO; I mean, if you know your computer can handle a variety of files when certain specifications are clamped, then why not allow them?

It seems to me like you want to push for universal standards-- which would be awesome and a noble aspiration, but standards change. What about all the new editors that don't know how to encode to MPEG2. Just because they don't know how, doesn't mean their videos will suck.

"I don't know how to encode to MPEG2, I only know how to encode to h264"
we're going to hear a lot of this in a few years

1) While I agree that, if they coordinator can "handle" the playback, I still beleive in the idea that the more variable you have, the more likely a problem will occur.

2) Indeed, I didn't want to bring that up but I would very much support a push to standardize AMV contests. I think standardization has it's place and i think the AMV community could benefit from it. Pretty much anyone could enter any random contest and win something, but does that award carry any weight?

3) I think the, "i only know how to encode to h264", excuse is bad. I've always believed that the term "Editing" encompasses the entire scope of audio/video processing, which includes encoding. If an editor can't encode, then they should find someone else who can do it for them or learn how. There are plenty of resources here on this website that will help.

[godix]

But you do have to fit 5 or 6 vids into each category or there isn't a contest - plain and simple.

I completely disagree.

I agree with bashar but I don't really see that as a problem. If a category doesn't have enough vids, cut the category rather than lower the bar. For example, there's so much unfunny crap that's grabbing trophies these days I'm starting to think cons should just quit having a comedy category.

[Phantasmagoriat]

1) While I agree that, if they coordinator can "handle" the playback, I still beleive in the idea that the more variable you have, the more likely a problem will occur.

2) Indeed, I didn't want to bring that up but I would very much support a push to standardize AMV contests. I think standardization has it's place and i think the AMV community could benefit from it. Pretty much anyone could enter any random contest and win something, but does that award carry any weight?

3) I think the, "i only know how to encode to h264", excuse is bad. I've always believed that the term "Editing" encompasses the entire scope of audio/video processing, which includes encoding. If an editor can't encode, then they should find someone else who can do it for them or learn how. There are plenty of resources here on this website that will help.

1) That might be an issue, but it can be eliminated if everyone used the same playback mechanisms [like CCCP]

2) I think it might carry more weight; Everyone is on the same playing field, and yours did the best job. However, this could restrict creativity.

3) Yeah, that might be a bad excuse, but then the editors might make more errors [who are unfamiliar with encoding to MPEG2]. OTOH, if the editor used the same playback mechanism as the contest, they could easily check for errors, and wouldn't have any excuses.

But you do have to fit 5 or 6 vids into each category or there isn't a contest - plain and simple.

I completely disagree.

I wouldn't mind a shorter contest that had only the 'close-calls' pitted against each other-- so you would need a minimum of 2 good videos I guess...
The contest would be more enjoyable, but it wouldn't last very long...
...it kinda depends what you want.

[Mister Hatt]

@mirkosp: Bluray supports MPEG4-AVC, VC-1, and MPEG2. It is not restricted to AVC and a LOT more hollywood bluray's I see use VC-1 than AVC. AVC is mostly used on Japanese blurays.

@pwolf: If someone is honestly having trouble with H.264 playback, they need to cough up $100 to get something more up to date than their 667MHz Coppermine (the slowest PC I have gotten 480p AVC playback on.) CCCP+CoreAVC, or MPlayer if you are really getting hammered are more than enough for most DVD ripped AMV's I have seen. Some AMVers tend to upscale things for no apparent reason, and also do that random HEY LETS USE 60FPS BECAUSE THE VIDEO LOOKS BETTER WITH ALL MY DEENRAPING AND FASTER EFFECTS thing, and these have a much more significant impact on playback. If you are dealing with someone doing such things in a competition, better to not accept it in the first place anyway.

Re MPEG2 vs MPEG4-AVC, I cannot see what is wrong with H.264, besides that it encodes faster and better. Looking at the majority of stuff around here however, a better codec is probably not what you want, because it will show more of the imperfections in everything. Add grain or stop abusing avisynth, kthx.

tl;dr given that most AMV's are at a DVD resolution, anything built in the past 9 years should have no problem playing it. If it does you're doing it wrong, or your editor is an idiot.

E~

[EvaFan]

I honestly can't say I do. If by caring about quality you mean something that is degrading the overall viewing experience then sure.

If your saying why this format/codec instead of this format/codec... My response is... Well why not? Does it matter so much? Even the codecs your hating on have rendering capabilities that mines well be considered lossless because your not going to notice the difference if the person doing the encoding knows what they are doing.

The only problems I could see are from different codec versions which can alter playback slightly from machine to machine.

[BasharOfTheAges]

But you do have to fit 5 or 6 vids into each category or there isn't a contest - plain and simple.

I completely disagree.

Well, are you're the one footing the bill for the trophies? Why is the event only an hour when it used to be over 2? Can you explain why an event that people obviously don't care about given the quality of entries should have main stage time?

Con politics and perceived value of an event matter, especially when main stage venue time and budget come into play. I've had the first rhetorical question above posed to me in so many words when we discussed requirements in the past, and I wouldn't fault any programming director that posed the other 2 if someone came to them with a short contest.