More questions I have about programming...

[y2kwizard]

OK, got a couple of questions for you guys about your programming language of choice.

First of all, how long did it take you to learn your first programming language relatively completely, to the point where you could make productive programs? Also, how difficult was the process?

Second, how easy was it to learn other languages after you had mastered the first? Was it any easier or harder to learn the new languages?

Finally, what is the best way to learn a programming language? A book, class, CD tutorial, or something else? Any specific items you'd recommend?

Finally, what do you use your programming skills for, and are you satisfied with your decision to learn programming? Was it worth it? Would you recommend it to others?

Thanks a lot!

[y2kwizard]

Finally, what is the best way to learn a programming language? A book, class, CD tutorial, or something else? Any specific items you'd recommend?

Finally, what do you use your programming skills for, and are you satisfied with your decision to learn programming? Was it worth it? Would you recommend it to others?

Klinkyisms abound.

[klinky]

I started with basic on a Vic-20, which IS NOT THE WAY TO LEARN PROGRAMMING. Line numbers, GOTO/GOSUB. Bad programming practices abound. It was the best me and Kthulhu could muster in like 1994.

The most interesting thing I got done was a couple "birds" to fly across the screen. Really simple, they were just a dot and a squiggly on each side. Err and I made a program that asked for a password and it would check to see if it was good or not. Kthulhu thought that MS would be interested in my basic password programming skills... he was only like 11 or 12 and I was like 9 or 10, so :\ Tee hee.

We then got a actual PC 386 w/4MB of ram. I found out about QBasic, and I made a program that you could type a squence of values in and it would make chirps out the PC Speaker, really crappy actually. I thought I could make money off of it... luckily I didn't. I didn't even have a way to save or load my music data, if you wanted to hear something, you'd have to type all the values in again, also it could only hold about 20notes, then your song would end :p Pretty crappy.

The second major program I made was CoolPage, which was a template HTML webpage maker, my family was impressed and I impressed myself by implementing mouse movement :p Yeah, but I used someone elses library to do it. I thoght I could make money off of this as well, I didn't. :p

Then I finally realized that I was a crappy programmer and that I was never going to make money off of Qbasic. After that I started having more fun with it and learned some "deeper" things, like graphics SCREEN 13 baby and hexdecimal(atleast the concept, I can't do arithmetic with it :p). I made a program where I had a stick figure run across the screen back and forth. That I think is my best acomplishment. I was a crappy artist so it wasn't that realistic :p But it was neat.

After fudging with Qbasic, I moved on to Visual Basic :O. I got 3.0 for Win3.1 and messed with it for a bit. It seemed okay, but it was butt ugly and not very elegant. I messed with it for some time, I made a program called My Little Database which was suppose to help me organize Kthulhu's porn collection, never got around to it though.

I then moved on up to VB5. In VB5, I've created quite a bit of interesting things. I created TicTacTCP(internet Tic-Tac-Toe), TCPaste(internet clipboard sharing, I actually made a server that could "handle" 256 clients, I think ^_^;;), SuperMisatoLipSynch(program to aid in lipsynchage for my AMVs, used VfW API to export AVI files :O), MisatoWords(Hotkey application that you associate keywords with and it would launch a website, added Win2k/xp alpha blending so it looked pretty)...

I recently used Qbasic to help write some batch scripts for when I was doing some work compressing down the Doom III beta, demo alpha, pre-test, e3 demo version thingy. ehhh.

Anyways!

It's taken about 5yrs and I still suck at programing. I recently actually figured out the purpose of BOOLEAN operators, MY GOD >_< That's like a basic of programming.

If you REALLY want to learn programming, then I would suggest you run off to college and take CS for two years :p

Or if you're into learning it yourself, goto your library and look up books on programming in C/C++. I would not suggest learning in basic as you'll get stuck there :p In the muck and tar that is slow and semi clunky basic.

If you want to try your hand at learning online, there is a list of links @ http://www.visualbasicforum.com/t42121.html (yes they have C++ forum there too ).

Also a really nice IDE/compiler matchup is DevC++ --- > http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html

Programming definitely helps you understand more about the computer and I enjoy the fact that I know how applications operate better. You also have the ability to think something up, figure out a way to do it and implement it if you wish. Like I recently did with the aspect ratio tool :p Misato-Aspect, it's some where in the General Video forum.


:O

~klinky

[CaTaClYsM]

fuck, I just signed up for a visual basic class. should I get out of it and just move strait to C++?

[Phade]

Hey,

Learning a language is the easy part. Learning the theory behind the language is the hard part. How would you know to use an array if you didn't know what an array was? When is a "for" loop better than a "while" loop? What's the differene between "pass by value" and "pass by reference" and when should you use them? What is a recursive function, how would you write one, and what is it good for? Once you get the theory down, everything else is just syntax.

The best way is to learn a language is to find something you want to do and then figure out how to do it in that language. Find example code and then figure out how and why it works. Find examples that don't work and find out why.

When I applied for my last job, I had the "trial" day where I had to use this programming language that I had never heard of called PHP, have it connect to a database I had never heard of called MySQL, and then have it display the information based on a login. If I couldn't do it, they wouldn't hire me. At the end of the day, I had it running, not because I absorb languages easily, but becaue I knew the theory of what I wanted to use and then found examples to go by.

Learning a language is up to the individual. Some to better with books, others better with classes, others better by looking for examples.

I've used my programming skills for creating intranets, extranets, and the org, obviously. I am very satisfied with my decision. The environment is chaning all the time. There is always somthing to learn. I would recommend it to someone who is creative, enjoys challenges, and likes to learn.

Phade.

[kthulhu]

Did you get the job?

[Phade]

Hey,

I got it running, so I got the job. ^_^

Phade.

[klinky]

fuck, I just signed up for a visual basic class. should I get out of it and just move strait to C++?

Well if you put money on it and you can't get it back or stuff like that. Well, no. They may at least teach you properly if you're taking a class on it. :p

I learned Basic by hacking my way through it and reading nibblets here and there until my skills became a glosh. Like sometimes I'll include the $,%,! symbols at the end of variables, sometimes I won't. It's kind of annoying :p

Anyways. I would go a head and take the class. It should be rather simple and maybe it won't stick like tar on you, or you'll learn programming is not what you want to do.

I think also you guys should look at what you want to do with programming. Actually, I probably should have asked myself that wayyy wayy back. I just thought it was cool to type stuff in and things like that.

I don't know actually if you can define what you want to do in programming and then only learn that. :p Hmm hehehe.

C++/C and Visual/QBasic are similar in "concept", but internally and with syntax are different.

basic is quicker to rush in and hack something out real quick. You don't have to define variables or load up classes or put a damn semi-colon after each line. Commands are in plain english most of the time and end that way.

Qbasic:

Code: Select all

INPUT "How old are" ; age$
PRINT "You are " + age$

Err and let me try my hand at a c++ version:

Code: Select all

#include<iostream.h>

char age

void main() {
 cout << "How old are you?;
 cin >> age;
 cout << "\nYou are " <<age;
}

I think that's correct ^_^;; I hope.

anyways it illustrates my point, that C++ is a bittle different. Both programs do the same thing, ask for your age and print it out, but qbasic was quicker at creating the program.

If you had say add 100,000 ages together, then you would probably get a major speed boost from using C++ over Basic. If all you're doing is something rather simple that is not cpu intensive then basic will usually work fine.

A 3D game, should be done in C++, not VB. A Database front end, is going to be easier to take care of in VB and you're probably not going to notice much speed difference unless the front end is going to take massive amounts of data from the database and do complex math operations on it, in that case it would no longer become a front end, and would become a actual program :p

The basics are known as RAD tools, or Rapid Application Development. They're not very fast, but they're friendly to the programmer and you can make a interface or just get your program off the ground quicker, but it's not going to be as elegant or as fast as say C++.

Also VB does lack some features? What is it the DoubleLong? or is it a 64bit integer it's missing I forgot what it was, but when I was trying to do high resolution timing in VB for SuperMisatoLipsynch, you had to jump through alot of loopholes to convert this 64bit variable down into like a VB currency variable >_< crazy!

So, I don't know if this answers your questions, but I sure typed alot.

I would still take the class as you're probably going to learn something from it and you can probably easily move on from there and goto C++.


~klinky

[kthulhu]

Err and let me try my hand at a c++ version:

Code: Select all

#include<iostream.h>

char age

void main() {
 cout << "How old are you?;
 cin >> age;
 cout << "\nYou are " <<age;
}

That crashed my Loonix !!!

[klinky]

Oh and Phade's right about the "Theory" part. It's good to have an idea on what operations you need to do to accomplish your goal.

Although, the language you learn from does have a impact. I've had some times & I am sure Phade has where he says "Well why can't I do it, like they do it in C++ and not this way" or me saying "I don't want to declare every variable I want to use! ".

Hehe Phade probably a better programmer(okay yes he is miles ahead of me), since I am usually half-way through a program when I figure out how I should of done it from the start :p


~klinky